Am up to episodes 361 to 365, and whew... the richness of the scripts is outstanding. The introduction of the Angela storyline, and the budding of the Brooke vs. Stephanie feud. Amazing. But I can't help but feel like we [still] got ripped off with recasting Beth Logan.

Bringing this over from the other topic ...

I've always wondered if there's an accurate and reliable list of first and last airdates for all of B&B's contract cast members since its debut episode. There's a lot of contradicting information floating around on various websites.
Since complete closing credits are rare, it's also a challenge to find out when performer XYZ was dropped to recurring. In addition, actors might have been dropped to recurring weeks after their last on-screen appearance.

Contract Changes between episodes 1 and 500:
Note: Full closing credits are not shown regularly. Usually, they appear every 5th episode, but sometimes there aren't any credits for up to 10 episodes.

Episode 1:

• Judith Baldwin – Beth Logan
• Susan Flannery – Stephanie Forrester
• Joanna Johnson – Caroline Spencer
• Lauren Koslow – Margo Lynley
• Katherine Kelly Lang – Brooke Logan
• John McCook – Eric Forrester
• Carrie Mitchum – Donna Logan
• Ronn Moss – Ridge Forrester
• Clayton Norcross – Thorne Forrester
• Nancy Sloan – Katie Logan
• Stephen Shortridge – Dave Reed
• Jim Storm – Bill Spencer
• Ethan Wayne – Storm Logan

Episode 7:

• Bryan Genesse – Rocco Carner (added)
• Teri Ann Linn – Kristen Forrester (added)

Episode 52:

• Judith Baldwin – Beth Logan (removed)
• Nancy Burnett – Beth Logan (added)

Episode 89:

• Michael Philip – Mark Mallory (added)

Episode 183:

• Daniel McVicar – Clarke Garrison (added)

Episode 204:

• Michael Philip – Mark Mallory (removed)
• Stephen Shortridge – Dave Reed (removed)

Episode 263:

• Robert Pine – Stephen Logan (added)

Episode 269:

• Allan Hayes – Nick Preston (added)

Episode 372:

• Nancy Burnett – Beth Logan (removed)
• Robert Pine – Stephen Logan (removed)

Episode 450:

• Judith Borne – Angela Forrester (added)

Episode 463:

• Darlene Conley – Sally Spectra (added)

Episode 493:

• Bryan Genesse – Rocco Carner (removed)
• Allan Hayes – Nick Preston (removed)
• Ethan Wayne – Storm Logan (removed)

Episode 500:

• Nancy Sloan – Katie Logan (removed)

I do feel that the introduction of Sally Spectra in episode 452 breathed new life into the show. The Logans - other than Brooke - had become increasingly isolated (basically just serving as a dating pool for the Forresters) and it was wise to introduce a new group of characters with a more natural common ground with the Forresters outside of the romantic possibilities.

On 3/9/2022 at 4:17 PM, Videnbas said:

I do feel that the introduction of Sally Spectra in episode 452 breathed new life into the show. The Logans - other than Brooke - had become increasingly isolated (basically just serving as a dating pool for the Forresters) and it was wise to introduce a new group of characters with a more natural common ground with the Forresters outside of the romantic possibilities.

Also of note is that originally Sally was not that funny but rather menacingly dangerous sort of Rose DeVille II. They quickly fleshed her out and added the camp factor, but I found it fascinating nonetheless.

Why did they get rid of Clayton Norcross (for Jeff Trachta of all people)?

Thorne went from preppy and fragile to 80s Lauren Fenmore hair and singing duets with Macy.

Thorne#1 and Caroline looked like old Hollywood stars. 

I can't believe how good the show looked in its first season.

And yes, I am one of the very few people who liked B&B much better before the Spectra gang showed up. 

2 hours ago, Orea Mou Kiria said:

Why did they get rid of Clayton Norcross (for Jeff Trachta of all people)?

Thorne went from preppy and fragile to 80s Lauren Fenmore hair and singing duets with Macy.

Thorne#1 and Caroline looked like old Hollywood stars. 

I can't believe how good the show looked in its first season.

And yes, I am one of the very few people who liked B&B much better before the Spectra gang showed up. 

Just out of curiosity, where do you see the Thorne character going (post 1989) if, hypothetically, there had been no recast? 

Edited March 12, 20223 yr by Videnbas

2 minutes ago, Videnbas said:

Just out of curiosity, where do you see the Thorne character going (post 1989) if, hypothetically, there had been no recast? 

I could him with Macy, minus the singing. He also had a lot of chemistry with KKL.

There was no reason for his animosity towards Ridge to be dropped.

Jeff Trachta was a brand new character.

CN was handsome enough for the Winsor Harmon era stories.

Sally in these early episodes was much more grounded and a threat... not used for comic relief, or the butt of the joke.  When Macy was first introduced, there was sort of a Mildred Pierce vibe going on between the two that quickly got dropped.

 

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Sally in these early episodes was much more grounded and a threat... not used for comic relief, or the butt of the joke.  When Macy was first introduced, there was sort of a Mildred Pierce vibe going on between the two that quickly got dropped.

 

I think the initial development of the Sally/Macy dynamic was very interesting. It seemed like the writers initially had one kind of  relationship in mind, and then they gradually let the relationship develop in the opposite direction, but the shift was slow enough that it still felt organic. In a way, Sally and Macy's close bond was even more heartwarming because we saw that they didn't start out that way and had to work to mend their relationship. 

Edited March 12, 20223 yr by Videnbas

10 hours ago, Videnbas said:

Just out of curiosity, where do you see the Thorne character going (post 1989) if, hypothetically, there had been no recast? 

 

10 hours ago, Orea Mou Kiria said:

I could him with Macy, minus the singing. He also had a lot of chemistry with KKL.

There was no reason for his animosity towards Ridge to be dropped.

Jeff Trachta was a brand new character.

CN was handsome enough for the Winsor Harmon era stories.

This wasn't directed towards me, I know but it's such a fascinating question and ironically, one that I had been thinking about recently.

Just my perception, of course, but had Norcross stayed, I could see the issue of Thorne having either some form of mental health issue or psychiatric break being explored. There were so many signs pointing in that direction before, during and after Ridge's shooting. I think because of Norcross' good looks the issue of mental health could have been explored as happening to anybody, even the rich, well-bred and those seemingly having everything going for them in life. Remember on Y&R, Bell Sr. used the character of Ashley Abbott (the "Beauty"), the second born child of an illustrious and prominent family to have a psychiatric break, so I could definitely have seen the second born of the illustrious L.A. based first family of fashion going through something similar. 

It would have been interesting to see Norcross and Eakes together onscreen. I think Eakes is strong enough an actor to have pulled off the pairing in a believable way. It would have been an interesting dynamic to see, for many reasons.

Soaps aren't the best as maintaining long-term issues like physical or mental ailments, so I wouldn't expect B&B to fully explore the issue of Thorne having mental illness, but I could see the exploration of Thorne dealing with the aftermath of a psychiatric break or a mental health issue over several months to a year. The writing used to be at least that consistent back then.

8 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

This wasn't directed towards me, I know but it's such a fascinating question and ironically, one that I had been thinking about recently.

Just my perception, of course, but had Norcross stayed, I could see the issue of Thorne having either some form of mental health issue or psychiatric break being explored. There were so many signs pointing in that direction before, during and after Ridge's shooting. I think because of Norcross' good looks the issue of mental health could have been explored as happening to anybody, even the rich, well-bred and those seemingly having everything going for them in life. Remember on Y&R, Bell Sr. used the character of Ashley Abbott (the "Beauty"), the second born child of an illustrious and prominent family to have a psychiatric break, so I could definitely have seen the second born of the illustrious L.A. based first family of fashion going through something similar. 

It would have been interesting to see Norcross and Eakes together onscreen. I think Eakes is strong enough an actor to have pulled off the pairing in a believable way. It would have been an interesting dynamic to see, for many reasons.

Soaps aren't the best as maintaining long-term issues like physical or mental ailments, so I wouldn't expect B&B to fully explore the issue of Thorne having mental illness, but I could see the exploration of Thorne dealing with the aftermath of a psychiatric break or a mental health issue over several months to a year. The writing used to be at least that consistent back then.

I agree Thorne's mental health could definitely have been explored in depth with Norcross. His Thorne was more fragile while Trachta's Thorne had a more grounded quality that kind of cut this angle short right after the Deveney Dixon storyline had culminated in the second attempted shooting.

As for the potential of Norcross and Eakes, it's easy to overlook that the very first Thorne/Macy scene was in fact with Norcross, not with Trachta. So we actually have two "first meetings of Thorne and Macy" - the bar and the Queen Mary - and can compare these two "chemistry tests".

In my opinion, Norcross/Eakes had a dynamic where Thorne was clearly the most fragile/timid of the two and Macy was the confident one cheering him up. In that scene, she was joking to get him out of his serious mood and Macy was much less vulnerable than Thorne was. I can easily imagine that a Thorne/Macy pairing with Norcross would have had Macy as the "dominant" one, or the "caretaker", and Thorne as the one needing emotional support.

Trachta and Eakes, on the other hand, were equals from the start. Even in the first scene you can see them "mirroring" each other's moods, tone of voice, and body language (which they often tended to do in their scenes over the years). So their Thorne/Macy became more of a symbiotic relationship between two people who were fundamentally very similar.

Edited March 13, 20223 yr by Videnbas

10 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

This wasn't directed towards me, I know but it's such a fascinating question and ironically, one that I had been thinking about recently.

Just my perception, of course, but had Norcross stayed, I could see the issue of Thorne having either some form of mental health issue or psychiatric break being explored. There were so many signs pointing in that direction before, during and after Ridge's shooting. I think because of Norcross' good looks the issue of mental health could have been explored as happening to anybody, even the rich, well-bred and those seemingly having everything going for them in life. Remember on Y&R, Bell Sr. used the character of Ashley Abbott (the "Beauty"), the second born child of an illustrious and prominent family to have a psychiatric break, so I could definitely have seen the second born of the illustrious L.A. based first family of fashion going through something similar. 

It would have been interesting to see Norcross and Eakes together onscreen. I think Eakes is strong enough an actor to have pulled off the pairing in a believable way. It would have been an interesting dynamic to see, for many reasons.

Soaps aren't the best as maintaining long-term issues like physical or mental ailments, so I wouldn't expect B&B to fully explore the issue of Thorne having mental illness, but I could see the exploration of Thorne dealing with the aftermath of a psychiatric break or a mental health issue over several months to a year. The writing used to be at least that consistent back then.

Something similar to DOOL's Mickey in the 70s. I love the idea.

I do think Macy and Thorne would have still happened had Norcross stayed on.  In fact, more would have been done with the Deveney/Angela story had Norcross stayed on as Thorne.  

 

Perhaps Bill Bell would continue working with Ridge, Thorne, Brooke and Caroline as a unit. I could see Thorne and Brooke becoming a couple after his divorce from Caroline. 

KKL was pregnant in 1990, so "Rick" might turn out to be B&B's version of Brooks Prentiss. A baby with four parents. 

@Orea Mou Kiria Rick ended up as B&B's version of Phillip III. Bradley later redid Phillip III/Nina/Cricket with Rick/Amber/Kimberly.