News & Gossip from the mid-1980s per The Soaps of Yesterday

[zanereed]

 

I honestly wish that Pam Long had the opportunity to bring Meta Bauer back to Springfield. I really believe that Long would have written well for the character. And you are very correct, 1985 to 1988 were definitely a wasteland. When Zaslow and Garrett returned in 1989, I started watching again full time.

 

Also, was that Kobe quote just lip service to the viewers? Someone once told me that although Kobe said that, she never really intended on doing it.

[zanereed]

 

I think you might have been the one to point this out to me, but didn't P & G want the Bauers eliminated as the core family as early as 1981? I thought Hulswit commented somewhere on this shortly after he was let go in?

 

I do remember that Doug Marland confirmed that P & G wanted "fresh" and "new" (younger) faces on TGL to cater to the younger audience. Marland was able to both introduce younger characters who were - at the same time - anchored to established characters on the show, along with keeping those established characters rooted in a storyline, even if they weren't the front burners.

 

Once Potter was gone and Kobe took over, I have a feeling Kobe wasn't as tied to history as her predecessors were, so she was open to completely revamping the show. As far as ratings went, that revamp started off well in early 1984 when the show finally hit #1, but it didn't last.

[KMan101]

 

Stewart confuses me so much, LOL. Any actor his age would be thrilled to be front burner in a triangle. But I guess if the actors weren't thrilled with each other ... Maybe Don was just getting burned out. I'm glad he appreciated Hollen/Trish. I love her. I kinda feel like Mike/Amanda would have made more sense just to piss Alan off, LOL. But both were a little too young for him. 

 

I have to admit a lot of what could have been sounds better than what came. I'm guessing they eventually shifted the War of the Roses-esque story to Alan and Reva. It worked at first with Christopher as Alan but with Pilon it didn't work. 

 

It's a shame we lost Stewart (more-so the Mike character) and Roussel. I also think they didn't seem to have any idea what to do with Rebecca Hollen as Trish, who could have easily been a Hope recast too.

 

Amanda Spaulding was a missed opportunity too. I refuse to acknowledge Toby Poser's version. I would have done something different with her.

 

I notice soaps were more ... resistant back then to recasting and instead seemed to try and create new characters to fill that spot on the canvas, often leaving me wondering why they weren't just a recast of a more pivotal role. 

 

Several characters never really existed past the 70s/80s, really. LOL.

 

Bert's passing would have been the best time to bring Hope back. I do agree A-M's rapid aging made it difficult to fit Hope in. I still would have done it, but I can see why they hesitated and didn't bother. I don't think there was any excuse in the 90s or 00s though. But I think there was a time where they didn't think audiences cared about "old characters". 

 

Sigh. I will never understand getting rid of O'Rourke and Justin. Especially when you have Stewart with one foot out the door. Guess he freed up some money for newbies like Dr. Jim Reardon (likely his younger replacement)

 

I feel like by the time the 90s rolled around Ross became a catchall for Justin/Mike and you didn't really "need" them. I could see that argument being made. "Why bother when we have Ross"? Wheeler was dumb as hell to take him off contract.

Edited April 5, 2021 by KMan101

[vetsoapfan]

 

I thought that Long developed into a better writer over time, and her second stint at TGL worked better than her first. I agree that she probably would have written well for Meta. Long could be perceptive and nuanced in some of the writing for certain characters.

 

The quote about bringing back Mike and Hope was (I believe) in Christopher Schemering's anniversary book. I'd have to check. I'm sure it was lip-service BS. Remember, it was Kobe who insisted to Mimi Torchin that plot was more important in the soaps than characters. She literally did not have a clue.

 

I think that the decision to gut the show must have been at least agreed upon by P&G. Just like when the dreadful Mary-Ellis Bunim gutted ATWT in the early 1980s and eliminated so many of the old folk. If P&G had wanted to put the brakes on Bunim and Kobe, surely they would have had the power to stop them. But going back even further, to 1975, P&G allowed Lemay and Rauch to fire Virginia Dwyer, George Reinholt and Jacqueline Courtney from AW. Obviously, TPTB at P&G did not understand their own soaps and the audience, or just did not care about dedicated veteran viewers in their thirst to attract gum-chewing 12-year-olds. 

 

 

Marland said the same thing was true at GH, that ABC wanted the focus to be on the young characters whom the audience allegedly wanted to see more. But at GH, TGL and ATWT, as you say, Marland was savvy enough to introduce young leads who were nevertheless tied to the older, longer-running veteran characters of the shows. That is what preceptive writers and producers do.

 

 

The show really fell apart quite quickly after the massive cast purge and structural changes. No matter what improvements came later, nothing was ever truly able to repair the damage and bring TGL back its former glory. Indeed, during its final decade, the show just kept getting worse and worse. Its cancellation was like a long-overdue mercy killing.

[vetsoapfan]

 

Pilon was a very weak recast; I would have preferred Alan to be off-screen entirely than to watch Pilon in the role. 

 

 

I would have written off Alan-Michael, if his rapid aging was the cause of keeping Hope out of Springfield. They could have brought him back years later, de-SORASed to a more appropriate age if need be. But Hope's presence was needed in Springfield more than an overgrown A-M's was, IMHO.

 

 

I also refuse to acknowledge Poser's dreadful pod-Amanda, and the idea that she was Alan's sister. Just no. That was impossible according to what we had all watched play out on screen. 

 

 

It just goes to show how little TPTB know about soap opera fans. We NEVER forget legacy characters. Heck, even in the show's final years, viewers were commenting about bringing back Trudy Bauer, a character who had not been seen since (I think) 1958. 

 

 

Ross Marler was the last remaining hub of the wheel. When they fired ver Dorn, I actively wanted the show cancelled. I could tolerate no more abject stupidity.

[zanereed]

 

That exact question about Stewart was asked in TGL thread! Some have speculated that he was actually burned out after 16 years, and wanted to make a change. To be fair, once he was fired, he promptly relocated to the west coast to try his luck there. He appeared briefly as a fill-in for Nick Coster as Lionel Lockridge in 1985. I don't think he appeared in any soap after that? I have heard from others that Stewart felt a bit shielded because of his popularity, and was able to subtly dictate how the show could/should use him. Mike Bauer had really been a supporting/anchor player from 1982 to 1984, so maybe Stewart had gotten used to that role? From what little I've gleamed from Pam Long's comments, Mike would have been front and center in story for a least a year, if not more.

 

Here's what I would have loved to have seen play out in 1984 to 1986 from Alex/Mike/Lillian:

 

Mike ends up following Alex to Barbados and discovering Brandon alive (late 1984).

After Barbados, Alex wants to rekindle her romance with Mike, but Mike is still dating Lillian (late 1984/early 1985).

Bert passes away peacefully in her sleep. Mike stops dating Lillian, wanting some time to himself to reevaluate his life. Hope returns to Springfield (recast, likely), with A-M cast in the tried and true tradition of "Boarding School" for Bert's funeral (spring 1985).

Alex, both feeling sorry for Mike due to Bert's passing, but also wanting a way to get back into Mike's good graces, hires Hope (before she can consider returning to NYC) to redecorate the Spaulding mansion (giving Hope both gainful employment and an opportunity to further eliminate Alan's presence from her life). Mike and Alex interact because of this. Lillian continues to give Mike space, but sees right through Alex's scheme (summer/fall 1985).

Mike comforts Alex after Lujack is killed, and this leads to their romance rekindling (winter 1985/early spring 1986).

Mike decides he's ready to commit again, and asks Alex to marry him. Alex is elated to have some happiness in her life after losing Lujack, and wants to marry Mike as soon as possible, leading to a summer wedding (late spring 1986).

On the day of wedding, Mike and Alex are horrified as their wedding is interrupted by the return of none other than...Alan Spaulding, back from the dead (summer 1986)!

 

That's how I would have plotted it, anyway! 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by zanereed

[Soaplovers]

 

I watched Long's SFT stint when the episodes were up in the last months.

 

I was surprised at how balanced the show was, with a wide variety of different age groups shown.  And hearing her speak about Stu/Jo...it made me think she got what the core was of that show.

 

She opted to do the final good bye scene between Jo and Stu without doing the planned wedding between them because they were best friends and platonic...and they were the heart of the show.

 

I think that experience helped her make her 2nd stint at GL quite successful.

[vetsoapfan]

 

I think killing off Suzie was a dreadful mistake. Killing off so many of Jo's relatives over the years really hurt and isolated the character. Still, Long's writing style had improved since her first stint at TGL.

 

I had never, ever heard any rumor about a planned wedding between Jo and Stu to cap off the end of the series. Do you remember where you saw that mentioned? As you say, they had been platonic buddies for far too long for that to be even remotely feasible. Plus, Jo and Stu were related, anyway. They had become step-siblings when their widowed parents married each other decades before.  The show's final scene, played out between two life-long friends, was perfect the way it was.

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[zanereed]

 

@vetsoapfan, what would you have thought if TGL had eventually tried George Reinholt in the role of Alan Spaulding. I could definitely see parallels between how Reinholt played Steve Frame and Bernau played Alan Spaulding. Someone a few years ago had posed that question to me, and I never thought of how well Reinholt might have done in the role. By the 1980's, Reinholt looked a bit different (as could be seen in his return for Another World's 25th Anniversary in 1989), but I think he would have been fascinating to watch. The role of Alan might have allowed Reinholt to go a bit darker than he was allowed to do with Steve Frame. I know at the time Reinholt had sworn off of acting, but I now ponder what that would have looked like, had he been able to portray Alan.

 

Honest question, @Mitch: did Simon have any chemistry with anyone other than Ellen Parker? After I read your comment above, it made me wonder if Simon really had any true chemistry with anyone...?

[vetsoapfan]

 

I think Reinholt was an interesting case in that sometimes his performances could be complex and brilliant, whereas at other times, he looked detached and bored. So many people from AW and OLTL acknowledged he was difficult to work with, but if he were able to reign in some of his bad behavior, I would have enjoyed seeing what colors he could have brought to Alan Spaulding. I certainly would have taken a gamble on him over Pilon.  If Reinholt and McKinsey had ended up playing Alan and Alex at the same time, that would have been...awesome!

 

 

You did not direct that question to me, but personally, I would say no. His morose, listless Ed did not generate sparks with anyone. Well, maybe Rachel Miner to a degree. I could be biased because I always wanted Mart Hulswit back in the role, but Simon just never seemed to fit.

[robbwolff]

 

The quote about bringing back Mike and Hope was in Soap Opera Digest and was part of an article about Jeff Ryder's plans for the show. It was around early April 1986, so right after Bert passed away. He also discussed plans to introduce Sarah and Rusty Shayne. Of course, Ryder was gone from Guiding Light by May 1986. Here's the article:

 

 

[vetsoapfan]

 

Thanks for that article. I thought Ryder was a bad writer for TGL, but it's always interesting to hear TPTB talk about their plans.

 

Gail Kobe always spoke about bringing Mike and Hope back to Springfield, however, based on fans' displeasure over their absence. I'm almost certain the quote is in Schemering's book. 

[zanereed]

 

Regarding Reinholt and McKinsey playing siblings...I completely agree. Again, after all these years, Reinholt was someone I had never, ever considered for the role of Alan until someone asked me out of the blue a few years ago. The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if it could have worked. I admit, Reinholt was uneven, but sometimes I wondered if it was who he was acting in a scene with, or if he was actually invested in the material that was written for him.

 

Regarding Simon, you know I'll agree with you on that one

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. I really was trying to figure out who Simon had any chemistry with. Even when he was first on with Ellen Dolan, it always seemed like Dolan was striving to make that relationship interesting.

 

 

Yes, that you for finding that article, @robbwolff. I admit, reading it doesn't instill confidence that they even knew what they would even do with Hope and/or Mike should they have brought them back to Springfield.

[vetsoapfan]

 

It had never occurred to me to consider Reinholt for the role of Alan Spaulding, either, but now that you've mentioned it, I've been pondering the idea. I would have taken Reinholt over Pilon, as I said earlier, over Ron Raines, and certainly over Michael Zaslow, whom TPTB allegedly considered briefly for the part. I adored Zaslow tremendously, but casting such an identifiable TGL actor in another major role would have been infuriating. It annoyed me when both William Roerick and Jordan Clarke were hired to play new characters, after they had already been on the show previously as different ones. I hate that Josh Taylor is now Roman Brady on DAYS. He's Chris Kositchek to me. I hate the revolving door of characters given to Roger Howarth and Michael Easton on GH. Yuck.

 

I never liked Dolan on TGL and I liked her even less on ATWT. She always came across as cold and brittle to me, devoid of human warmth. I don't recall her having genuine chemistry with anyone on the  shows, either. I know, I know: I am a curmudgeon!

 

 

Ryder didn't even seem to know (or remember) Mike existed. And he didn't mentioned Meta or Trudy (and their potential offspring) as members of the Bauer family who could have been reintroduced.

 

Not all headwriters are professional enough and savvy enough to study the histories of the shows they take over. That's why the mediocre ones like Ryder can't use the past effectively: they don't know it. I'll never get over Gary Tomlin saying that when Jacqueline Courtney returned to AW in 1984, he didn't really know the history between Rachel and Alice, which resulted in Courtney's character floundering around with little purpose for the year she was there. What incompetence and stupidity. When Pat Falken Smith briefly assumed the reigns of TGL in 1982, I was thrilled to see how well she had researched the show and could write effectively for its varied characters.

 

I swear, I should have been a consultant for P&G, LOL!

[Soaplovers]

 

It seemed like once Ryder was solo..that's when the show went off the rails.  And I wonder if he would have listened to his writers or not that might have given him info on characters to use, etc.  

 

He seemed dismissive of the Bauers...and I doubt he would have done Nola justice even if Lisa brown opted to come back.

 

How was Simon on Search?