Empire: Discussion Thread

[DaytimeFan]

The episode was fine. Unfortunately for all involved the show is no longer 'must see' and I don't feel like I'm going to be saying 'damn, I missed it!'...a pity. I just hope Taraji is saving her money and planning her next job.

[frequentsoapfan]

I feel like everyone is jumping on the sexual fludity train lately. 

Cookie has been a stereotype since Day 1 but its gotten even worse now. 

They ruined Anita at the end of Season 1 by having her sleep with Hakeem. There's just no way to recover the character

[London]

Too true that the show is no longer must see tv. I'm cool if I miss scenes or hell, even the entire episode. I just want them to release all the episodes a la Netflix so I can be done.

I hope they do a lot of soul searching for S3. I know a ton of shows endure a sophmore slump but hopefully they can bounce back from this and be better in the future.

[marceline]

I forgot this show came back.

 

Can someone remind me what happened to Mimi? Isn't she married to Camilla?

 

We are never going to move past Jamal's sexual orientation are we? I don't care if he's gay, bi, fluid or whether he likes to have sex with carnivorous plants, let's just talk about something else. Please.

Edited April 1, 2016 by marceline

[ReddFoxx]

I thought the episode took time to explore the more. The scene where Hakeem was ostracized from his family in a moment of grief was terrific.

As for Jamal's sexuality, there probably is always going to be fluidity there to placate viewers who are not as forward thinking. The black community is still not too accepting.

Edited April 1, 2016 by ReddFoxx

[ajsp35801]

Empire owns Thursday night. Their demos are twice as high as the next show. Its nowhere near being cancelled. 

[DeeeDee]

As opposed to who?

[ajsp35801]

the black community? Are we still trying to perpetuate the idea that black people hold some special antipathy for gayness that other people don't?  Give me a break.

 

If anything, Jamal's fluidity story was the show runners using the character to teach/educate about sexuality. After all, the show did have very high HH share for black viewers last season when Jamal was ONLY into men and having sex onscreen. If anything, they'd stop watching over the anti-God/religion themes running through the show versus Jamal kissing boys 

[Eric83]

There is a different type of homophobia in the black community that is rooted in racist stereotypes in what it means to be a black man and masculine. White gay men do not have the same issues as black gay men. 

This show is not that good anymore, it's watchable but I was in the corner shaking like a junkie waiting for every Wednesday night.

 

The ratings are still huge though. The mid season premiere got a 4.8 Adult 18-49 ratings, towering over everything on broadcast television.

[ReddFoxx]

I'm not saying it hasn't gotten better, but there still are a lot of blacks that do not approve of homosexuality and those people are part of the viewing audience.

Black people are still more socially conservative than the public as a whole when it comes to homosexuality. When I told my mother I was gay, she fell to her knees practically in tears and she is fairly liberal person. She accepted it after about three hours or so, because we are like best friends, lol. All that aside, it's just my opinion that the writers had Jamal sleep with a woman just to placate more conservative viewers, but that's just me. Perhaps they had other reasons.

Indeed. It's really hard to be black and gay for the reasons that you mentioned.

[DeeeDee]

No.

Most of the North Carolina and Mississippi politicians who just passed draconian laws against LGBT people are NOT Black.

Which President enacted Don't Ask, Don't Tell & DOMA and under which President were they rendered unconstitutional?

So the assertion that Black people are more "socially conservative" about homosexuality than the public as a whole is baseless at best.

White gay men don't have issues about what it means to be a man and being masculine?

You've got to be kidding.

The context of the issues may be different but the problems are the same.

Right? The most joyful moment of the first season was Jamal's coming out at the white party!

If anything critics and viewers have had more issues with Empire's handling of mental health issues than gayness or religion.

[NothinButAttitude]

Gay, white men do have issues similar to us gay black men, but to the extent as we gay, black men do? I doubt it. It is a double taboo for us. To society, it is bad enough that we are already black men but to gay is another strike against us. I think in our community that it is viewed as a hinderance--as if we are weaker where we are raised to be stronger than the average being. 

[ajsp35801]

I agree that black gay men have different issues than white gay men just as black women have different issues than white women. However, the different issues does not make the "black community" more homophobic. After all, its not black people standing in the door way, so to speak, attempting to deny GLBTQ entrance to equal rights and protections under the law. It ain't the "black community" galvanizing behind anti-gay laws. Its not the "black community" voting against GLBTQ best interests. So when you tell me that subculture is more homophobic, I'm wonder what you're using for a measuring stick. 

[ajsp35801]

exactly. Black people, in general, do not vote against LGBTQ rights.

 

I do agree that black gay men have a special journey. The entire situation is by product of the mysogyny that is rabid in this country, which some gay men are often times complicit in perpetuating. So when masculinity is defined a certain way for black men, you've got black gay men struggling to maintain their male privilege cause they dont meet the criteria. And god forbid they lose that. 

 

Every time Jamal said  "I'm a man",  what he was also saying was calling me a woman is an insult. Why is that an insult? 

[RavenWhitney]

Yes, Season 2 has been plagued by some bad story decisions, some bad scripting and some bad acting. But then there are marvelous moments of sheer talent with the intersection of music and plot and character. So far the weakest episode was this most recent one as written/directed by creator Danny Strong. It was embarrassingly overdramatic.  Andre crumpled on the floor.  Too much.  Lucious screaming and breaking down to Cookie, the gun.  Too over the top and cheesy.  When they focus on Cookie and branch out from the music biz plot they have gold.  Cookie and her sister's search for the drugged out sister was great as were the prison concert scenes.  The actor playing Hakeim can't carry the material they give him and his bevy of women strains all dramatic license.  Naomi Lurch Campbell is not fun to watch at all; she's not an actress; she's a strange looking model.  Give me more Cookie family history, more Portia.  And stop with Gabby S.  She can't act.  I don't care if she rocked in Precious.  She stinks on this show.   They need some seasoned writers to come in and help with story.  They are in danger of making a mockery of their own success.  Some of the costumes have been too over the top. I get it that they want to be fabulous but reign it in just a lil and it'll be more compelling and fun.  I still watch because the talent on the show is astounding overall.