Empire: Discussion Thread

[Vee]

I don't think it is bad pacing when no one knows (or can know) what Cookie did. As for Bunky, that simmered for weeks before Vernon "handled" it, and I doubt that will stick.

[ReddFoxx]

I see nitpicking.

[YRBB]

Nah. It's not nitpicking. We all love EMPIRE, that much is certainly true, but there are times when there is no sense of previous events having affected characters AT ALL or even, actually, happened. And then, suddenly, there is.

Case in point, the horrible decision to follow up the episode ending with Cookie realizing she had just killed a man for no reason with a what-dress-should-I-wear montage. That was REALLY jarring, to me, and wasn't nitpicking. The time for Cookie to show some reaction/remorse isn't six episodes later, it's right after. They should have made a whole episode about that.

Picking up story threads at a later point is one thing. The show feeling disjointed, for certain elements at certain times, is a whole other thing. It's a SMALL issue, not even really a criticism (so, please, let's not start with the "OMG I don't know what you're talking about, the show is amazing" posts ) because otherwise the writing is very strong. However, the issue exists and it NEEDS to be addressed. I can see that the episode order, combined with the myriad plots, led them to not cover every single beat, so I can understand, but I also see a trend (small, almost inconsequential as of right now) that could blow up into something worse.

[Vee]

I don't think it is disjointed, though. I've seen far, far worse, which is why I stopped watching most primetime. And I don't think the issue of Cookie ordering the hit is that big a deal, because I feel confident it will come back when the time is right. If you disagree that's fine, I just don't see it.

[MoTheGreat]

Why should Cookie be stressing over the hit? When only people who knows about the killing is her sister & the guy who was hired to do the hit.

I believe that Cookie going to be stressing over the guy she was testifying against.

Edited March 2, 2015 by MoTheGreat

[YRBB]

Well, considering there's been far worse doesn't exactly eradicate any responsibility on the show's behalf, especially if it becomes worse, but sure -- they do a much better job than a lot of other (network) primetime or even most.

The argument I'm making is for emotional reaction to what she has done. That's what was missing. She just KILLED a man and she's trying on outfits without a care in the world. That's just weird and very much in vein with most crappy network TV. Plotwise, there's no big deal if the thread doesn't get picked up until later, maybe the connection is discovered or whatever.

[Mr. Vixen]

I agree with everything you've said, YRBB!

[ReddFoxx]

Cookie did attempt to stop the hit, but at the same time, the guy probably would have been a threat to her if the truth did come out about her testimony, so I'm guessing that's why there was a lack of caring on her part.

[YRBB]

That could very well be it, although she did seem stunned to hear it was too late, which is why I expected... something as a follow up. There just seems to be a slight inconsistency and vagueness in some aspects that I hope is not a part of a developing trend.

[Mr. Vixen]

I agree, boo. I was talking to a few friends about the show at dinner the other night and I said something along the lines of "Remember when Cookie casually had that man murdered for no reason?" and my friends was like "And then they never talked about it again?"

So we aren't the only ones who noticed that.

But you're right, it's not nitpicking - it's just discussion.

[DeeeDee]

+1.

[Skin]

That's another thread that ended up being drifted away too.

[ChitHappens]

I agree. Regardless of when this is picked back up, why is the hit not weighing heavily on Cookie's mind? Beginning the show (2 weeks ago) with Cookie trying on outfits and the dinner? That was all wrong. I would never begin a show that way.

p.s. Jussie got a record deal:

http://www.power99.com/onair/the-rise-grind-morning-show-4349/empire-actor-scores-deal-13314622/

Edited March 2, 2015 by ChitHappens

[marceline]

My issue with the murder is that we've seen no fallout from it at all. I would've expected at least a scene of Cookie watching the news to see what the cops were saying or a follow up conversation with her sister. As it stands now, everything around that murder could be edited out with no effect to the larger narrative. Another reason I wish they'd pick it back up is because it was the first time we've seen Cookie be wrong about something. That whole episode centered on showing us how Cookie is good at just about everything: producing records, managing artists, handling the press, etc... She was practically portrayed as superhuman. That murder was the first big screw-up we've seen from her and I'd like to see how she handles it.

Upon re-watch this weekend, I was taken by two things. Not that this is news but I continue to be amazed at how narcissistic and petulant Lucious is. He starts off the episode saying how he is the most blessed man in the world (mainly because everybody is doing what he wants them to) then at the end he declares, "This isn't a family. This is a disgrace!" All because he wasn't getting his way. He truly is the classic soap patriarch complete with outdated ideas. (Really? The white wife bothers you?) The more I watch him the less I see Blake Carrington and the more I see Alan Spaulding. I'd love to know what soaps Strong and Daniels have watched.

And two, for all my complaints about this episode, Jamal's coming out felt like one of the most truly earned moments of the series. Even more so because it's one of the few times we've seen everybody on this show on the same page, with the exception of Lucious. It was nice to see the reactions of Vernon who really does seem to have a father's unconditional love for these children. Even Andre and Rhonda showed their support even though they were in the middle of their own lurid drama. It says something that Lucious, who gives interminable lip service to family and loyalty, couldn't appreciate the loyalty his family showed to Jamal.

[MoTheGreat]

Monique said she suppose to have played Cookie. I thought Lee approached Ms Henson. 2nd I know Monique lost some weight but not enough to hit her butt like Henson did in that episode.

Now I see why Monique is blacklisted.

& Diddy suppose to be suing because he said Lucious is about him.