Santa Barbara's problem was focusing too much on Cruz/Eden in the late 80s plus having a revolving door of supporting characters. Once Eden and then Cruz left, the show was doomed.

Ryan's Hope kept a lot of the same characters, but recast most of their characters quite a few times. Plus, some characters were in a hamster wheel (i.e. Delia/Roger, Jill/Frank, and Pat/Faith) while other supporting characters were in and out.

Guiding Light killing Maureen Bauer off didn't kill the show, it just started the process. I think the show in 1997 was fairly good with establishing Rick/Abby as the next generation Ed/Maureen with Michelle potentially inheriting the angst complex of Ed while the show was pretty well balanced. 1998 with the Reva clone, Beth coming back as a border-line psycho, Annie Dutton coming back with a new face as a 'copy, Holly becoming a nursery rhyme stalker killed whatever potential it had to regain its former glory after Maureen's death, and the start of Santos invasion (Mick Santos was around blackmailing Blake, getting beat up by Ken norris, then getting killed at the beach by Drew/Michelle as 1998 ended).

In 1989 the drug of choice for OLTL writers must have been something psychoactive because they penned one of the weirdest plots in the soap's history. The result is the infamous "Eterna" storyline about a secret underground city built by Victor Lord.

Guiding Light killing Maureen Bauer off didn't kill the show, it just started the process.

Which is pretty much what I was alluding too. The benefits were immediate but down the road, the show become unmoored. Actually killing off a number of dynamic, albeit peripheral female characters helped push the downfall (Nadine Cooper, Jenna Bradshaw, for example). A lot of elements pushed the downfall, but I definitely agree that the tip of the iceberg began with killing Maureen.

Or All My Children: Phantom of Opera Erica MASK

One word.

Eterna.

The conclusion of Eterna aired the day I was born (Tuesday, February 28th, 1989). Is it wrong that I kind of see that as a badge of honor?

I'm not sure how accurate it is to say that what OLTL did in the late 1980s was unique and that those stories could only be told on OLTL. Many soaps in the 80s veered into fantasy elements -- Edge with subliminal perception, Texas with a poison gas that mummified its victims, GH with the Ice Princess and freezing of Port Charles, Guiding Light with Quint's search for the temple of gold, Loving with the devil showing up, etc. What we saw with OLTL in the early 1990s was a return to its roots and the return to damn good storytelling like Megan's death, Viki's alters, and the aforementioned AIDS quilt/homophobia story -- stories that still pack an emotional punch 20 years later.

Agreed. I appreciate Quartermaine's opinion,and I know this is a point of contention for OLTL fans, but... Frommy perspective, the high camp fantasy of the Rauch era really burned itself out by the end and stopped working (I personally think when Peggy O'Shea left as HW was when things went downhill, but...) Of course Rauch briefly tried a return to social storylines (the rap story! LOL) and everything I've seen from his last year or so was awful.

While I get that some fans disliked the Gottlieb era, I really think it's unfair to say any soap could have done an AIDS quit story. Because frankly, as Llanview in the Afternoon shows, that was seen as a very risky move at the time and it and other stories were seen as things that other shows simply weren't touching.

(I personally think when Peggy O'Shea left as HW was when things went downhill, but...)

IA.

Kimberly was an albatross the show could not afford at that time. It was awful and the performer had to be one of the worst ever on Daytime. In the top 3 at least! To shackle her to Rae and Seneca? Criminal!

Joe was ok. I liked the first guy, but RB was much more sexy and edgy.

That isn't true. Kimberly (and Michael) and the story with Rae and Seneca was hugely popular. This is why ABC forced Claire Labine to bring Kim back, even though she felt the story was over. I know many disliked her when she aired on SOAPnet, but I thought the storyline was very well written and she improved enough to make it work. Had they let her exit when Claire wanted, it would've been fine.

The problem with Ed and Maureen as a tentpole couple is Ed was not that type of character, especially Peter Simon's Ed. He was very neurotic, as was she, and he and Maureen just didn't have a strong enough marriage. That was his second affair (third if you count Claire), and Maureen had been in love with another man at some point during their marriage. Maureen on her own could have served as a central figure for GL, but she and Ed together didn't have that function. I think that's one of the reasons JFP very stupidly decided to kill her. They just weren't right together.

It's like calling Bert and Bill a tentpole couple - they weren't.

P&G made a huge mistake in culling the Bauers, especially characters like Hope and Hilary, who had ties to many other groups on the canvas and, in Hope's case, could have driven story with the Spauldings for many years.

They also made a huge mistake never bringing Mike back.

Edited November 24, 201312 yr by DRW50

That isn't true. Kimberly (and Michael) and the story with Rae and Seneca was hugely popular. This is why ABC forced Claire Labine to bring Kim back, even though she felt the story was over. I know many disliked her when she aired on SOAPnet, but I thought the storyline was very well written and she improved enough to make it work. Had they let her exit when Claire wanted, it would've been fine.

It may have been popular, but the story itself was toxic and also boxed Rae into a very tight corner, as Louise Shaffer later said.

When I watch 1981 RH episodes, the entire show feels nasty and very limited, and while that is not all down to Joe and Kimberly (it also has to do with the very misguided decision to put KMG's Faith in a central role and the overly repetitive, tedious "Delia pays" storylines that made me grow to despise Roger as the most sanctimonious hypocrite in town), they were a big part of it.

One word.

Eterna.

I loved Eterna.

The problem with Ed and Maureen as a tentpole couple is Ed was not that type of character, especially Peter Simon's Ed. He was very neurotic, as was she, and he and Maureen just didn't have a strong enough marriage. That was his second affair (third if you count Claire), and Maureen had been in love with another man at some point during their marriage. Maureen on her own could have served as a central figure for GL, but she and Ed together didn't have that function. I think that's one of the reasons JFP very stupidly decided to kill her. They just weren't right together.

It's like calling Bert and Bill a tentpole couple - they weren't.

P&G made a huge mistake in culling the Bauers, especially characters like Hope and Hilary, who had ties to many other groups on the canvas and, in Hope's case, could have driven story with the Spauldings for many years.

They also made a huge mistake never bringing Mike back.

I've always wondered why they didn't bring Hope back in the later years because they desperately needed her and they could've easily made her to tentpole character with Spaulding connections (as you stated). Same with Alan Michael too. Though he wouldn't've been tentpole, I think that he should've remained central to the canvas instead of that epic fail last run the character had.

As I did in my blog (when I was tending to it ), I would've loved for Hope to come back Springfield and soften Alan again like she did in clips I've seen of the two. IMO, Hope humanized Alan and made him so much more than the mustache twirling villain/pariah that the show made him with Ron Raines was in the role. IDK why GL didn't snag Robin Mattison, who played Hope in the early years, when she left AMC in the late 90s and brought her to GL. I would've loved to have seen Hope be the "guiding light" to the cast's characters.

GL pissed me off in it's final years because they had the history to go all out and bring back beloved characters (Rita, Holly, Hope, Quint, Nola) that still had life in them and could've added so much in the final years. Instead we got swamped with newbies like Christina, Ashlee, Natalia, Rafe (even though I did like him for the most part), Grady, and Cyrus that added NOTHING to the show.

By the end I don't think they could have afforded most of those old characters, although I do wish they'd tried bringing back Hope and another A-M recast. Elvera Roussell was a day player on B&B a year or two after GL wrapped, so clearly she wasn't picky.

It may have been popular, but the story itself was toxic and also boxed Rae into a very tight corner, as Louise Shaffer later said.

When I watch 1981 RH episodes, the entire show feels nasty and very limited, and while that is not all down to Joe and Kimberly (it also has to do with the very misguided decision to put KMG's Faith in a central role and the overly repetitive, tedious "Delia pays" storylines that made me grow to despise Roger as the most sanctimonious hypocrite in town), they were a big part of it.

I saw some of the episodes of RH circa January 1981 through march 1981.. and it seemed like it was two islanded shows in one. You had the Ryans drama with Faith/Jill/Frank played out along with Rose/Jack and Joe/Sibohan with Delia being made to look stupid on one 'show'.. and then you had Kim/Rae with the man they were both dating on the other end... with Seneca being the clueless husband. If I was a new viewer, I would have had no idea that Rae and Seneca had previous ties with Frank and Jill.. nor that Kim had even met the Ryan's clan.

By the end I don't think they could have afforded most of those old characters, although I do wish they'd tried bringing back Hope and another A-M recast. Elvera Roussell was a day player on B&B a year or two after GL wrapped, so clearly she wasn't picky.

Bingo. People forget that GL was on a very, very tight budget. Unlike Y&R, who can afford vets because of it's much bigger ratings, etc., GL was just hanging on. Heck, for a long time in the 1990s, GL was a day behind in several major markets because it aired at 10 am, which didn't help. It wasn't until CBS got a second satellite feed that allowed the entire country to see the episodes same-day and by then even more affiliates had taken it out of the 3 PM. It was lucky to have lasted as long as it did, when it was way past prime.