I wonder how these shows will fair at the Emmys. We all know both could merit a Best Show nod and MANY of the actors deserve nominations, but I wonder if they'll get blacklisted. Debbi Morgan, Kelly Missel and so many others did really strong work.

if the actors get blacklisted over something beyond their control, that's low even for the Academy or whoever is in charge with the Emmy process

Who knows. Maybe if the shows win that might be the boost we need.

They'll be blacklisted. That's the way what's left of the industry works now.

IMO either Debbi or Kelley Missal is the Best Actress of the year - or Young Actress or whatever the bullshit title is. Brooke Newton deserves a nod for how Colby Chandler became multifaceted in a very quick timeframe. Jill Larson deserves a shot, so does Eden Riegel, Eric Nelsen, Vincent Irizarry, Darnell. And I thought Erika Slezak and Jerry verDorn did incredible work on OLTL, and that Melissa Archer, Robert Gorrie, Denyse Tontz, and yes, FL and KDP deserve nods as well. Everyone was good, really, except a very few.

They'll be ignored, though. The only way they can't be ignored is if these shows were to somehow return and run again. And stay running.

And AMC was the best "Best Show" in several years. But that will be ignored.

I agree with out. It will be such a Damn shame but it is inevitable.

They'll be blacklisted. That's the way what's left of the industry works now.

IMO either Debbi or Kelley Missal is the Best Actress of the year - or Young Actress or whatever the bullshit title is. Brooke Newton deserves a nod for how Colby Chandler became multifaceted in a very quick timeframe. Jill Larson deserves a shot, so does Eden Riegel, Eric Nelsen, Vincent Irizarry, Darnell. And I thought Erika Slezak and Jerry verDorn did incredible work on OLTL, and that Melissa Archer, Robert Gorrie, Denyse Tontz, and yes, FL and KDP deserve nods as well. Everyone was good, really, except a very few.

They'll be ignored, though. The only way they can't be ignored is if these shows were to somehow return and run again. And stay running.

And AMC was the best "Best Show" in several years. But that will be ignored.

what a shame, shows how petty, vindictive these people are and also how they favor favoritism, but it's nothing new, it's been like this for years

I have to chime in -- I don't think PP's claims are ridiculous. They do have basis. They certainly won't be awarded their full claim but I think they will get something. PP was sold a bill of goods by ABC. I don't think PP's intentions were pure -- they thought it would be easy, and it was not. But there certainly seems to have been foul play on ABC's part to undermine/sink PP's product.

I read the whole document, it does read like a daytime drama. While I don't think the claims are baseless, I'm not sure if they merit the amount PP is seeking.

Of course, PP could have changed the stories/characters/actors, but they shouldn't have had to do so based on the agreement. If they have even the slightest evidence that ABC knowingly went against the agreement, they could prove fraud.

OLTL, for me, didn't hinge on those three actors/characters, but the fact that Ron/Frank were so adamant about bringing those characters to GH, and then ultimately, keeping the actors, does give some merit that the actors/characters were some of the most popular from OLTL.

I read the whole document, it does read like a daytime drama. While I don't think the claims are baseless, I'm not sure if they merit the amount PP is seeking.

The complaint says they launched with a $30 million investment. If they can get that back and a deferment of the fees to boot, they can produce a new season. While I know this isn't going to be popular, I think they would be better off producing one really long season of AMC instead of trying to do both shows. AMC performed better and was unaffected by the drama around the BOCs. Now that PP has some experience under their belt they can hopefully manage the budget a bit better. Less catering, more marketing. Also, since ABC is part owner of Hulu all the more reason to get away from there and try to get the show on Netflix. People know how to use Netflix.

My issue is that I just don't think hitting the network up for money is a viable long-term business plan. Even if they're owed some it's not going to solve the bigger problem.

And even if they got that cash, either 30 million or something upwards of that - what is the upshot? I don't think focusing on one series for the moment is necessarily a bad idea, although I'd love to have both at once right away, but firstly, if they were to dump Hulu, which I think is a great distributor, Netflix, while a great idea in theory, is not a sure bet. Netflix's original programming, from what I've seen so far, is either prestige stuff or major franchise hits - they're doing House of Cards, various genre series, and now they've got multiple popular Marvel Comics properties which have a substantial built-in audience which knows how to use the Internet. While I'd love it, Netflix have shown little inclination from what I've seen to go near something like the soaps, whereas Hulu's programming seems a little more inclusive. Amazon is out because their new comedy series - with John Goodman, no less - appears doomed from what I've heard. They've got a long way to go.

So if they got money from the suit they'd have to do a new series, or both series, and then they'd still be going around passing the hat, still looking for new investors which wasn't exactly an orderly or sane process this time around. I don't want to go on that merry-go-round again. If these shows are to come back I'd rather see them come back with money and a commitment in pocket, and not just enough money for the most razor-thin margin possible - one more season and out. If they were to say they can do either one or two seasons of both shows (of 40 episodes) to span 12 or so months overall, or at least six to nine months straight of a single show, then I'm more inclined to take PP seriously at this point.

Edited November 15, 201312 yr by Vee

And even if they got that cash, either 30 million or something upwards of that - what is the upshot? I don't think focusing on one series for the moment is necessarily a bad idea, although I'd love to have both at once right away, but firstly, if they were to dump Hulu, which I think is a great distributor, Netflix, while a great idea in theory, is not a sure bet. Netflix's original programming, from what I've seen so far, is either prestige stuff or major franchise hits - they're doing House of Cards, various genre series, and now they've got multiple popular Marvel Comics properties which have a substantial built-in audience which knows how to use the Internet. While I'd love it, Netflix have shown little inclination from what I've seen to go near something like the soaps, whereas Hulu's programming seems a little more inclusive. Amazon is out because their new comedy series - with John Goodman, no less - appears doomed from what I've heard. They've got a long way to go.

Agreed. Personally I watch just about everything on Hulu except for shows that I buy on Amazon since I don't have cable. Hulu did a great job of promoting the shows, not just as Hulu original series but as part of their larger soap universe. I think it was a great fit but if it's true that ABC sabotaged them behind the scenes at Hulu then I just want them to be as far away from that as possible.

Edited November 15, 201312 yr by marceline

I don't buy that claim. It's one of the ones that doesn't ring true, and I've always heard that Disney's connection to Hulu was integral to PP getting anything from ABCD, and that they were quite supportive.

Edited November 15, 201312 yr by Vee

My issue is that I just don't think hitting the network up for money is a viable long-term business plan. Even if they're owed some it's not going to solve the bigger problem.

And even if they got that cash, either 30 million or something upwards of that - what is the upshot? I don't think focusing on one series for the moment is necessarily a bad idea, although I'd love to have both at once right away, but firstly, if they were to dump Hulu, which I think is a great distributor, Netflix, while a great idea in theory, is not a sure bet. Netflix's original programming, from what I've seen so far, is either prestige stuff or major franchise hits - they're doing House of Cards, various genre series, and now they've got multiple popular Marvel Comics properties which have a substantial built-in audience which knows how to use the Internet. While I'd love it, Netflix have shown little inclination from what I've seen to go near something like the soaps, whereas Hulu's programming seems a little more inclusive. Amazon is out because their new comedy series - with John Goodman, no less - appears doomed from what I've heard. They've got a long way to go.

So if they got money from the suit they'd have to do a new series, or both series, and then they'd still be going around passing the hat, still looking for new investors which wasn't exactly an orderly or sane process this time around. I don't want to go on that merry-go-round again. If these shows are to come back I'd rather see them come back with money and a commitment in pocket, and not just enough money for the most razor-thin margin possible - one more season and out. If they were to say they can do either one or two seasons of both shows (of 40 episodes) to span 12 or so months overall, or at least six to nine months straight of a single show, then I'm more inclined to take PP seriously at this point.

Agreed. Personally I watch just about everything on Hulu except for shows that I buy on Amazon since I don't have cable. Hulu did a great job of promoting the shows, not just as Hulu original series but as part of their larger soap universe. I think it was a great fit but if it's true that ABC sabotaged them behind the scenes at Hulu then I just want them to be as far away from that as possible.

Didn't they say that it costs 40-45 million to produce both shows? If so the 90 million could fund two seasons. I do think that if they are able to use this money to fund the soaps for an extra season maybe they can explore other avenues to show the shows. What I mean is, is that there have been a lot of shows, primetime and daytime, that took several seasons to Catch on. Maybe that is what they are trying to risk.

Vee, I think the only way this could work is if they won the lawsuit and used the money to fund the series with ABC's support. Without ABC's support this won't work. I wonder if that could be a possible deal, that ABC will pay them, but only if a second season is produced. A second season where ABC actually allows them to air ads on the network and perhaps with crossover with GH. Of course it could still fail, but at least they'd have the chance to properly succeed. I also think if they have deals like FX Canada or OWN, they need to promote the show better. FX Canada did a great job promoting it, so I'm mostly talking about OWN. They should have a late night repeat and also they need to get into the habit of airing weekly promos that show whats happening on the show.

I also don't think Netflix would be a good idea, despite having a bigger consumer base. Netflix has only two soaps, Melrose Place and the first season of nuDallas. They don't have an audience for these shows whereas Hulu has several primetime soaps and also is airing Korean soaps and Coronation Street. They have an actual soap section with content. Plus, people WERE watching on Hulu, so moving them would only create more confusion.

I am perfectly content to watch a second season on hulu, but I've seen far too many posts elsewhere from people who are apparently tech savy enough to use social media but do not want to watch TV online, and they are not going to be happy unless there's some sort of a television deal included, even if it runs on a delay as OWN did. If PP is able to do another season after this lawsuit, I think they have to find a way to have the episodes on traditional television somehow.

I happen to agree with Chris, but I'd say it would have to be a larger commitment from Disney, not necessarily ABC. Disney has supported PP down the line due to shared business interest. And whether we like it or not, Disney has the capital required to fund the shows indefinitely. If it's accurate that PP was only spending 30 mil on both shows - or even each - per show, that's substantially less than what it takes for ABCD to produce GH, and Frank Valentini is a master of cutting that budget down to the wire (yet IMO, the PP shows looked a lot better).

I have always felt that if these shows were to survive they would have to come to terms with Disney and ABC, at least in terms of promotion. I don't want them beholden to ABC Daytime or following that playbook - I thought it was important that the shows retained their creative independence as well as their ability to capitalize on PP's access to music, guests, etc. that put the shows in a realm outside the usual bland network soap sphere that most of those shows exist in these days. But if it's not Disney, then it's going to have be some other giant. Of course this is all mostly pie in the sky theoretical, as right now I doubt if these shows come back again that they'll do so via PP.

Edited November 15, 201312 yr by Vee

Didn't they say that it costs 40-45 million to produce both shows? If so the 90 million could fund two seasons. I do think that if they are able to use this money to fund the soaps for an extra season maybe they can explore other avenues to show the shows. What I mean is, is that there have been a lot of shows, primetime and daytime, that took several seasons to Catch on. Maybe that is what they are trying to risk.

The deal with the unions was that episodes were to cost between 80000 and 125000. So AMC cost anyway between 3,440,000 and 5,375,000. OLTL cost between 3,200.000 and 5,000,000

But They also had to pay actors crew etc so I could see how all this together could easily eat up 30 Mil Investment

I am perfectly content to watch a second season on hulu, but I've seen far too many posts elsewhere from people who are apparently tech savy enough to use social media but do not want to watch TV online, and they are not going to be happy unless there's some sort of a television deal included, even if it runs on a delay as OWN did. If PP is able to do another season after this lawsuit, I think they have to find a way to have the episodes on traditional television somehow.

If it ABC decides to air the shows while PP has the same control they currently have (Or more) it may be wise for them to re-air the first 40 episodes. That will be good mainly to gain momentum and revenue based on the 1st season to produce the 2nd season.