Tomlin provided the story such a slow ascent to begin with. I hope we do not loose the momentum of the storyline we have now. The Will/Sonny interactions have been a highlight of my daily viewing.

I am not positive. Meng's comment that women want romance and are not really interested in a gay love story. He says the show is committed to that story. But why would it be if ratings were the only thing that mattered and that women don't want to see gay stories? He is really saying if Will and Sonny's story goes on it will only be Group C or D stories.

((Sigh))

Gary Tomlin has failed to raise DAYS' rating multiple times now.

He never helped raise any ratings at SFT, AW, or OLTL, either.

How does rehiring someone who's already failed at the job help save DAYS?

The bone-headed decision making by TPTB never fails to amaze me.

Oops, sorry, the above comment was posted in the wrong thread, but it seems I can't delete it. If a mod cares to, please go ahead.

Oops, sorry, the above comment was posted in the wrong thread, but it seems I can't delete it. If a mod cares to, please go ahead.

Done

Frankly, I think this is all great.

I am not positive. Meng's comment that women want romance and are not really interested in a gay love story. He says the show is committed to that story. But why would it be if ratings were the only thing that mattered and that women don't want to see gay stories? He is really saying if Will and Sonny's story goes on it will only be Group C or D stories.

I don't even know what the basis for that it. I know quite a few women who loved the Kish story on OLTL.

Done

Thank you.

Sorry about my boo-boo!

I am not positive. Meng's comment that women want romance and are not really interested in a gay love story. He says the show is committed to that story. But why would it be if ratings were the only thing that mattered and that women don't want to see gay stories? He is really saying if Will and Sonny's story goes on it will only be Group C or D stories.

That's what I'm thinking. His answer was strange. Sounds it could be dropped, but they might just keep it as a C-D story and never be an A story. I hope it's not dropped, it's one of the few good stories on DAYS right now.

Eh I just don't know.

I don't mind they're getting rid Matt Ashford, Patrick Muldoon, and Sarah Brown. I'll miss Christie Clarke.

I mean, it's not like they didn't know what they were getting themselves into. "Oh, well, you see, women don't really tune in to gay stories." Then why did you tell one in the first place? Why work on some year-long build-up to finally bring a character out of the closet and then act surprised that they don't have 3 million new female viewers just dying to take a peek at the queer story? I mean, really???

I don't even know what the basis for that it. I know quite a few women who loved the Kish story on OLTL.

Honestly, there's been a lot of research and talk about how popular gay male *romances* have become with younger generation female viewers (and I'm sure some older ones too) and it's a trend that seems to be expanding (although even Queer as Folk had something like a 45% young female viewership at its peak ten years back). Isn't that the demo they want? I know it's not as simple as that, but if we're comparing the awful OLTL situation, ratings didn't improve because Kish were dropped, they improved because the show was really at iots campiest--add that that having the bizarre Dorian lesbian storyline at hte same time was perhpas too much gay, and you had the HATED Stacey story, Mitch gone amuck, etc.

That said, I'm sure many of these women wouldn't think to tue into a 40 year soap to see if they have a gay romance, the story was primarily reported on in gay media sites (and male viewers don't even count anyway), etc, etc.

Edited April 10, 201213 yr by EricMontreal22

I have enjoyed the writing since the reset. I have especially enjoyed Will's storyline and Marlena's relationships with Sami and Will and Will and EJ. This whole thing is a shame. I think they're blaming the gay storyline. I think Will is about to go to Colorado to live with Uncle Eric.

Quite frankly, they just need to take the show back to crazy town with all of the wild and over the top stories. They've tried everything else. What else is left?

Honestly, there's been a lot of research and talk about how popular gay male *romances* have become with younger generation female viewers (and I'm sure some older ones too) and it's a trend that seems to be expanding (although even Queer as Folk had something like a 45% young female viewership at its peak ten years back). Isn't that the demo they want? I know it's not as simple as that, but if we're comparing the awful OLTL situation, ratings didn't improve because Kish were dropped, they improved because the show was really at iots campiest--add that that having the bizarre Dorian lesbian storyline at hte same time was perhpas too much gay, and you had the HATED Stacey story, Mitch gone amuck, etc.

That said, I'm sure many of these women wouldn't think to tue into a 40 year soap to see if they have a gay romance, the story was primarily reported on in gay media sites (and male viewers don't even count anyway), etc, etc.

I was going to post the same thing. From Nuke, to Kish, to your prime time gays, they all tend to have way more female fans than male ones. Young females love gay couples and gay slash fiction. As a Kish fan I feel a sense of Deja-Vu.

Edited April 10, 201213 yr by wingwalker

Will should become possessed by the devil, and kill off all the people who are about to leave in one fell swoop, and then retreat back to his apartment and f#ck the living shi# outta Sonny. Bareback. That'll get people talkin'

I was going to post the same thing. From Nuke, to Kish, to your prime time gays, they all tend to have way more female fans than male ones. Young females love gay couples and gay slash fiction.

That's exactly it. Being a huge fan of shoujo/josei manga (ie girl/women's) which often read like soap operas anyway, there's been a massive tradition since the early 70s of having male same sex romances in them (which do apprently get some male followers, but still, even as homosexuality is more permissable in Japan, primarily are written by women for women). 15 or so years back when girls manga started trickling into the USA in English, the common wisdom was it was hard enough to get women to read comic books, but they'd be completely put off by the Yaoi/shonen ai (ie gay) stuff. Then a few smaller labels ctried, and those titles now routinely top the best seller lists for translated manga--it's a HUGE fanbase--and I only see it getting bigger. But I guess Meng and crew just wnt to try to bring back ex viewers who are probably often too old for the all important demo they care about anyway. I mean it sounds stupid, but if they actually did more with a real Will romance, and adveritsed it in the back of some popular manga title like the very soap opera serial Nana, it certainly couldn't hurt. (And yes, the actual slash community, which again is mainly female, has existed in the US since the 70s but has really blown up as well).

While every recent half assed attempt to grab a new audience for soaps has flopped, the reason is they really don't go after the all important female audience that might somehow tune in any creative way (quality of the show itself of course aside...)

I remember when the (superior) original UK Queer as Folk started, I was 17 or so but heard about it online--this was before it was so easy to find UK tv shows online, or it had aired in Canada, but on some forum I got a message from someone who said she had the episodes all recorded and would make me copies--and lived int he same city as me. Kinda nervously I went to the beauty salon she worked at, and found this super sweet, very heterosexual, woman in her 50s who then insisted on making sure I told her who my favorite couples were, etc--she was obsessed. And honestly I've never really watched shows much for couples so kinda couldn't care, but really she was obsessed. And even back thenm, looking at the forums, far from alone.

Even with cheesy stuff like True Blood, poles show that (largely women) prefer fantasy couples like Bill and Eric. Anyway my point is that xcuse is pretty poor, and I'd argue erroneous.

Edited April 10, 201213 yr by EricMontreal22

And recurring isn't necessarily a bad thing. Hell, some of the Guiding Light actors probably made more money on recurring in the final couple years.

This is true. I know Beth Chamberlain turned down a contract on at least one occassion because she was making more money on recurring and didn't want to be tied down to contract with a low guarnatee.

On the otherhand, you don't want to end up in the situation where 'Guiding Light' did where you depend on actors returning for a storyline (Peter Simon / Grant Alexander) and they cannot be there. Or build major arcs around recurring characters that have to be dumped because you don't have the money (Liz Kiefer seemed to have a lot of stops and starts).

I would think Judi Evans and Wally Kurth made decent money last year prior to the reset with the way the previous regime used them leading up to Sonny's arrival and in the episodes following his arrival in Salem.

The hivemind of daytime and the certainty that only one way is right for every soap just never ends.

Where are they finding these people? The people who went to see Twilight and Hunger Games or watch Game Of Thrones and watched Lost? Where are these throngs and why aren't they watching any of the soaps? Nothing in the current pop culture, or even the pop culture landscape of the last few years supports his statement or the vision of any of the soaps. A run down of the top grossing movies of the decade, the TV shows that became cult favorites like Lost, Battlestar and GoT, nowhere in current entertainment is there this insistence that people want babies, love triangles, and mundane reality mixed with the ho hum everyday. Considering their current audience is about 4 people, what have they got to lose going crazy?

I think you've got a valid point, quartermainefan, about there being an audience for escapist entertainment. I think Meng's point was, or should have been, daytime cannot provide the sort of romantic adventure of the past. In order for the show to stay within budget, they need to tell realistic stories. Stories that can be told in Maggie Horton's kitchen, stories that can be told in Jennifer Devereaux's living room, stories that can be told at the Brady Pub. Stories that do not necessarily require a whole lot of extras or props. Special effects are definitely out.

But the thing is, the last time they cut these people (some of whom were cut before the last big firings), ratings soared and the budget had to have been less. Even if they later faltered.

Meng and others might think they need to trim the cast and focus on telling a real long-term story (well, as much as DAYS will be allowed to tell one), as they previously did with the baby switch a few years ago.

With ratings falling, especially the core demos, the show might not realistically be able to afford these people. They probably shouldn't have rehired them again knowing it would be too much of a financial burden in the first place.

I'm guessing the first wave of firings is intended to free up some space. I think Sony / Corday / NBC allocated some extra funds for the reset and some of the other recent hires. Of those we learned of today, I don't think there was any surprises. Those who were fired were easy decisions storywise. Carrie and Austin came back a married couple, dealt with a fake infidelity story already, and really haven't been worked back into the canvas. Things may change over the next couple of months, but, as it stands right now, Carrie and Austin's story can easily be extracted from the canvas without leaving a hole. Maybe I'm being too much of an optimist, but I think Matt Ashford will be back if he's willing to come back. The Jack / Jennifer / Daniel story has been botched. Also, if the show is to revisit Daniel as Maggie's son, I think Jack would be backburnered. Rather than pairing Jack with someone else, I'm hoping they've made the decision to let Jack leave town for some time before having him reenter the canvas. Madison's relationship with Brady was rushed. I suspect Brady will become involved in the Nicole story once again.

Yeah but the ratings didn't soar because those actors were fired. The ratings soared because they had a huge storyline in the baby switch. I guarantee if nobody was fired while that storyline was airing, the ratings would've been the same. And the ratings later faltered after the baby switch because there was no second huge, crazy storyline. You need multiple waves of crazy, huge, outlandish storylines like it was in the 90's. Jim Reilly didn't stop at Buried Alive. It was a big mistake by Higley/Tomlin/Whitesell to stop at the baby switch.

I completely agree Toups that story is why 'Days' prospered during all those casting cuts in 2009. Despite the turnover, the show basically played its four main stories for the next two years.

I do disagree that the baby swap was the only big story. I was reviewing the ratings on Jason47's site and most of the major story peaks during the previous regime (Sami learning the truth about Sydney / Carly shoots Melanie / Parker's paternity reveal) met with ratings peaks. The problem was there was a fairly substantial gap between February and December 2010 where there was no major story climax. However, I do think the Carly story was rushed in order to secure the show's renewal as I recall February 2010 was a crucial period for the show and Corday announced the renewal shortly after in March.

Tomlin provided the story such a slow ascent to begin with. I hope we do not loose the momentum of the storyline we have now. The Will/Sonny interactions have been a highlight of my daily viewing.

I think it had to be done slowly based on the vile reactions from certain sectors of the audience to the kiss between Will / Sonny's dayplayer pal. Sonny had to slowly be sold to the audience before the audience could have accepted Will's sexuality. I think they purposely hedged their bets with the Sami hatred in order to make sure there was story to play if the audience dips could be blamed on the gay storyline. While Will has gotten substantial story, Sonny has been regelated to the backburner for the most part. It's a shame Sonny couldn't have played more support in the Abby storyline, but I think I would have liked Jack and Jen to have been involved sooner as well.

((Sigh))

Gary Tomlin has failed to raise DAYS' rating multiple times now.

In your opinion, how did 'Days' secure its last contract renewal? Do you think it was Higley and Whitesell's alone?