This misguided line of thinking might be somewhat "understandable" if we are talking about CBS (or even NBC soaps), since they tend to be most popular in the South and Middle America (where, sadly, there is more racism than in the "blue" areas). However, ABC soaps (as well as the network itself) are most popular in the big cities of the Northeast and West Coast. Thus, I am perplexed as to why Frons would feel the audience for ABC soaps would be racist or homophobic (even though he has indeed made statements to this effect in the past).

If you watch some of the old clips of ABC soaps starting around 1994 then they start to slowly but surely segregate and diminish most black characters. I think that it probably has always taken huge effort to get executives to support diversity, and they will always back out at first opportunity. They assume the public is full of bigots, or they are bigots themselves.

If you watch some of the old clips of ABC soaps starting around 1994 then they start to slowly but surely segregate and diminish most black characters. I think that it probably has always taken huge effort to get executives to support diversity, and they will always back out at first opportunity. They assume the public is full of bigots, or they are bigots themselves.

Interestingly enough, ABC was acquired by Disney in 1995; I do not believe these two events are a coincidence. Prior to the Disney takeover (and especially prior to 1980), ABC had the reputation of being the risk-taking network. The sad truth is that huge corporations like Disney and P&G are very limiting in terms of what stories can be told (and what types of characters can be given large amounts of airtime) because they are afraid of offending their plurality of customers who are white and heterosexual, many of whom may be bigoted. (Although, of course, the percentage of white people in the U.S. continues to decline.)

Edited September 20, 201114 yr by Max

Josh the Unabortion as #1, huh? Still makes me breathe fire. It's that storyline that makes a very large part of me feel like AMC deserves exactly what it got.

Ahhh Miss Kylie, you love fiercely and hate fiercely just like Erica Kane herself!

Making Jill Katherine's daughter, yes absolutely. And it clearly wasn't working even and Y&R refused to undo it for years and years. But Marlena's possession? That's one of daytime's most well-remembered and beloved storylines, and it was incredibly original as well. And made DAYS' ratings and buzz go WAY UP. Not a mistake by any means. I've always found the welovesoaps group of posters to be somewhat hypocritical and elitist though, so this opinion doesn't shock me.

But Marlena's possession? That's one of daytime's most well-remembered and beloved storylines, and it was incredibly original as well. And made DAYS' ratings and buzz go WAY UP. Not a mistake by any means. I've always found the welovesoaps group of posters to be somewhat hypocritical and elitist though, so this opinion doesn't shock me.

Maybe they think that the long-term damage to the genre outweighs the short-term gains that the storyline gave?

I wish they would have just put retcons as a thing that hurt soaps and gave examples. Having two different ones being so high on the list surprised me.

I don't really think there was long-term damage to the genre from the possession story. People blasted GL's clone story but it did no harm to GL.

If any "wacky" story damaged the genre it was the Ice Princess saga on GH.

I don't really think there was long-term damage to the genre from the possession story. People blasted GL's clone story but it did no harm to GL.

If any "wacky" story damaged the genre it was the Ice Princess saga on GH.

I don't see how it damaged anything. It was immensely popular, a breath of fresh air for a soap that had no identity just a few years before and was about to be canceled, and GH struck out and went its own direction. That direction proved more popular than all the other soaps and if anything was a mistake it was the idiotic notion around 1990 that somehow uniqueness and high adventure were immature and to be "adult" every show had to sound alike and look alike and tell the exact same stories in the exact same way. I guess the writers felt like crap writing comic book spy dramas and tales of time travel, but oh! a cancer tale or maybe a story about gay teens...this proved they were real writers. And we can pat ourselves on the back I guess, because this means we watch real drama. And that's why everyone in that poll ran to blast the Ice Princess, because it is self serving to do so.

I say that mostly because I think the soaps were much more desperate at that time to try to ape the Ice Princess story, and it often seemed like a big mess (I think Texas even had characters say, "It's just like Luke and Laura!")

I don't think GH or soaps changed direction in the early 90's because adventure stories were considered immature. Television followes the times we are in. in the 80's everything was big and over the top and the adventure component on GH just happened to hit it at the right time same as the larger than life couples on Days took off. Watch television in the 80s and what were the hits? Dallas, Dynasty. By the time the 90's rolled around the BIG was replaced by a more scaled down progressiveness. The Possession story on Days to me was almost a fluke. Then the 00's come along and its all edgy, ripped from the headlines, dark, dismal and mysogynistic. Look at the hit shows on primetime but especially on cable over the past few years. And now the audiences in daytime are tiring of that. on GH for example what was considered leading edge is now just become tedious, dark, and in fact boring. Shows like Days and Y&R that tried to immitate it too late have failed. Its almost like another turning point but watching the darkness on PT these days I have no idea what it is? Is it the campiness mixed with misogyny OLTL has turned into? Is every show going to immitate that. Or is the Days formula of going back to their roots and the more traditional romance mixed in with business and mystery going to be the thing? I think the dark edgy stuff has worn out its welcome on daytime.

Edited September 21, 201114 yr by JaneAusten

I'm enjoying reading the posts...the biggest blunders that stand out to me...Ice Princess on GH, Delia playing 'Fay Wray' to a King Kong on Ryan's Hope, similarly at the same time, Margo and Tom being fed to a man-eating plant on ATWT by 'Mr. Big'...I honestly think the writers are lazy...If I want to watch science-fiction, I'd go to the Sci-Fi channel. I applaud OLTL for their bullying and KISH storylines. But, when they take two steps forward, they take four steps backwards. I'm straight, but I could totally empathize with the gay community's reaction to KISH being written out...but, what I don't understand is that there did not seem to be any backlash to the storyline involving Dorian running for Mayor, pretending to be a Lesbian, and ending up winning the election. I'm surprised that there weren't any protests to that storyline. I wish someone would explain to me why there wasn't any.

I have a soft spot for the King Kong story, and it was just about the best story Randall Edwards ever had as Delia.

I don't really think there was long-term damage to the genre from the possession story. People blasted GL's clone story but it did no harm to GL.

If any "wacky" story damaged the genre it was the Ice Princess saga on GH.

Uhhh, yea, the clone did do a bit of damage...I as a viewer totally saw my soap as joke. I also started to hate Zimmer and Reva after that (and I lurved pre-resuection Reva) However, it didnt do more damage as GL NEVER mentioned it after Alan tried to bring it up at Annie's trial.

Someone was mentioning that Todd Manning doll earlier in this thread. I cannot help myself but I wish I could find one of those on Ebay so I could use it as a voodoo doll. *kidding, about the voodoo part, I love Todd*

I have a soft spot for the King Kong story, and it was just about the best story Randall Edwards ever had as Delia.

Is any of this online? I've never even seen Randall as Delia, and while I think it's awful how Ilene was handled--the only one who seems liek Delia to me--i do really like Randall's Broadway work.