On 10/8/2019 at 9:59 PM, BetterForgotten said:

Guza famously complained that Labine left "nothing" behind when he took over. He's kind of right, actually, the show was running out of fuel by the end of her tenure. But she gave him the canvas he would ape for years (namely Sonny, and Sonny and Brenda). 

 

And credit where it's due, Labine did bring this show into the 90's. It wasn't Monty's GH, but the show needed a big leap forward, and that's what Labine accomplished. It's a shame she was awful/boring as hell at OLTL and GL. 

 

17 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Well, how PFS might have conceived the original story is not how it later turned out. The night in the disco was definitely portrayed as rape (made all the more repugnant because Laura was a minor), but even during the end of PFS' first reign, Luke and Laura were being treated as an end-game romantic duo. Had PFS planned to gradually develop it that way all along? I don't know, but I doubt Luke turning into a hero so definitely and suddenly would have been PFS' choice. Judging from her past work, I think PFS would have had the Luke-Laura-Scotty saga be much more ambiguous and complex, instead of instant-hero Luke and instant-villain Scotty. She understood soaps' traditional stance on morality. Luke would have suffered for years for his crime. But Monty and the network had an agenda (to make the popular Tony Geary and his degenerate character palatable to the audience), so that's how it went. I'd love to know PFS' uncensored thoughts on the sudden switch-around.

What was her past work?

A few months after the rape, Luke did something really disgusting. As Laura and Scotty were dancing at the disco, he changed the music playing to "Rise."

 

I'm always up for some more of Pat Falken Smith and Frank Salisbury's writing.  Thanks, @Franko!

You're welcome, @Khan. I really liked the bond between Laura and Joanne, and how it was affecting Laura and Claudia.

31 minutes ago, Franko said:

A few months after the rape, Luke did something really disgusting. As Laura and Scotty were dancing at the disco, he changed the music playing to "Rise."

 

 

I think "disgusting" is too kind a word. That was just nasty.

53 minutes ago, Franko said:

A few months after the rape, Luke did something really disgusting. As Laura and Scotty were dancing at the disco, he changed the music playing to "Rise."

 

I think what gets me most about this whole scene is how well it depicts the insidiousness and the persistent violence that all-too-often plays out with rapists. That he continues to torment his victim in a power game to force her to pay attention to him, and for him to be revered by everyone around him while she suffers in silence. It's so real, so vicious, and so...common.

The fact that this was all tossed aside for some "great love" makes it all the more offensive to know what comes after, and how sad it is that a story that was so powerful be turned into something so ugly.

Edited October 14, 20196 yr by beebs

17 minutes ago, beebs said:

I think what gets me most about this whole scene is how well it depicts the insidiousness and the persistent violence that all-too-often plays out with rapists. That he continues to torment his victim in a power game to force her to pay attention to him, and for him to be revered by everyone around him while she suffers in silence. It's so real, so vicious, and so...common.

 

Very true. 

Well, as angry as some viewers were, more loved Luke.  Which is gross in hindsight.  I mean Rise skyrocketed up the charts after the rape, and usage in scenes like this and others.  Fans screamed rape me at Tony Geary at appearances.  It’s just all around awful.

 

Once his popularity took off and the show decided to keep him, there was no going back.  There are several scenes of him tormented by hurting Laura.  That screams PFS, but still the intention seems pretty clear in hindsight.  Redeem him and get them together.

My brother, who is 35, is a fan of jazzy music and loves "Rise". He has absolutely no idea of the GH connection to the song. He just likes the song.

Okay, I'm going to throw out an idea: Should GH have killed off Luke in spring-summer 1980 and had Laura fall for and commit heroic acts with his good twin and/or lookalike? On the one hand, it's not the most original idea*, but it would work later on** and I can't think of an easier way to do right by Gloria, Pat, Genie and Tony and the fanbase. Obviously we can't turn back time, but something to think about.

*OLTL did it in reverse with Marco posing as Mario around this time.

**A few years later, the real Sky and Raven on EON. A decade after that, Kevin arriving after Ryan on GH.

 

38 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

My brother, who is 35, is a fan of jazzy music and loves "Rise". He has absolutely no idea of the GH connection to the song. He just likes the song.

Being a '90s kid, I knew the beat before the song. I still sometimes sing to myself, "Biggie Biggie Biggie, can't you see ..."

Edited October 14, 20196 yr by Franko

14 minutes ago, Franko said:

Okay, I'm going to throw out an idea: Should GH have killed off Luke in spring-summer 1980 and had Laura fall for and commit heroic acts with his good twin and/or lookalike?

 

But, you'd have the issue of Laura falling in love with a man who LOOKED like her rapist, which, to me, is as problematic as her falling in love with the actual rapist.

 

Gloria Monty, Pat Falken Smith and everyone else at GH and ABC should have accepted that, popular or not, Luke Spencer had been written into a corner and needed to die, per their original plans.  If the network wanted to keep TG around, then, hell, get him a job on AMC, OLTL or RH.

Edited October 14, 20196 yr by Khan

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how they would have gotten around that problem. Alas, we ended up with TPTB being perfectly okay with presenting a 1 +1 = 3 situation (not literally, of course) and oddly enough, everyone going with it.

 

ETA: I'm now cracking myself up picturing a really convoluted, Heaven Can Wait on crack situation where bad Luke, then good Luke, die. Good Luke's spirit ends up in the body of a third man (also named Luke). He looks different from TG to everyone minus the audience. TG, meanwhile, has to spend the next 30+ years never appearing in a scene with a mirror or reflective surface. Okay, enough of that silliness ...

Edited October 14, 20196 yr by Franko

1 hour ago, Franko said:

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how they would have gotten around that problem.

 

Here's what I think: if "Luke & Laura" were inevitable, then GH should have taken more time -- put Luke, Laura and even Scotty through more paces, so to speak -- than they did in getting them there.  Luke and Laura made (consensual) love at the end of the Left Handed Boy storyline.  That could have easily waited until after the Ice Princess saga.

 

Instead, their first "on the run" story could have been more about fostering trust -- friendship, even -- and really dealing with their complex feelings about what happened that night at the Campus Disco (that is, when they weren't running from Frank Smith's goons).  I think the show dealt with those issues somewhat immediately after the assault, but (from what I have seen online) by the time the two were alone together -- a real test of trust on Laura's part, if you ask me -- it seemed as if the show's sole agenda was to sell the two as the Next Big Thing and forget all about the "seduction."

Edited October 14, 20196 yr by Khan

9 hours ago, Khan said:

it seemed as if the show's sole agenda was to sell the two as the Next Big Thing and forget all about the "seduction."

 

Definitely. Too bad TIIC have never realized (or cared) that the audience is almost always smarter than they give them credit for.

Looking back, there were other issues with Laura's story that would be offensive by today's standards.  After the rape, she wrote a letter to Luke expressing her longing for him.  Scotty found the letter, slut shamed Laura, and threatened to leave town.  When Luke and Laura returned from their summer adventure, Lee Baldwin confronted Laura about the letter and also tried to make her feel guilty and ashamed.  None of the Baldwins ever considered Laura's lack of compliance with the initial contact with Luke, including Gail, a psychologist who should have known better.

 

Hopefully, by today's standards, the plot would include references to Laura's complicated relationship with Lesley's lovers from the rejection of Cameron Foster to the illicit affair with David Hamilton.