YIKES I'm sure DM and DW will bring it but this is NOT something I want to see.

From SoapCentral

Angie's baby is stillborn. Brot finds an abandoned baby. Jesse decides to tell Angie that baby is hers. The baby is Maya's (the new young, pretty Chandler maid).

Kreizman calls this the most emotional story they've told so far on AMC; it wasn't an easy decision - pros & cons were weighed. They wanted the audience really invested in the happiness and the baby here for impact. Jesse takes Angie to the place they got married in back in 1983. She goes into labor. Something isn't right with the baby. Brot arrives on the scene. Jesse is holding the dead baby when he hears a baby cry. It's a baby that was left in Brot's patrol car. A desperate Jesse decides he has to spare Angie. Morgan and Williams are over the moon about the material. Morgan notes if Angie could see this deception wouldn't have worked. As is, she's in heaven, so happy as Jesse goes through the motions for her sake. There's a scene where Jesse returns to where he buried his child to beg for forgiveness (the cameramen were crying). Jesse wants the dead child to have the name Ellie, so convinces Angie to call the baby somehting else - they decide on Lucy. How long will this secret stay hidden? With David around who knows...

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by alexisfan07

It's not so much that I'm unsympathetic to Jesse as I feel like this is a very grueling story and I'm not sure how the characters can all stay together after this. I also think that viewers have seen so many of these stories about "good" people in PV committing major crimes, and while I don't believe what Jesse and Brot are doing is on the level of what Babe/Krystal did or what Tad did with Madden, I think it might be something where viewers won't be able to get through another story where there are no consequences. I would bring Jesse back, I just think he needs a break, and I would include Jacob in the story for that time because I liked Jacob and I don't think Darnell deserves to lose his job for this shock value storyline.

Edited March 25, 201114 yr by CarlD2

Again so much for audience sympathy.

To tell the truth, I have so little sympathy for the people in this stinkin' town nowadays. When Myrtle died, she took all of Pine Valley's righteousness with her, and this is the lady who came to town swindlin' and connin' and whats-nots. My main concern throughout this whole thing will be with Angie and Frankie, and they're guaranteed to take a beating, so I'm at a loss.

It's not so much that I'm unsympathetic to Jesse as I feel like this is a very grueling story and I'm not sure how the characters can all stay together after this. I also think that viewers have seen so many of these stories about "good" people in PV committing major crimes, and while I don't believe what Jesse and Brot are doing is on the level of what Babe/Krystal did or what Tad did with Madden, I think it might be something where viewers won't be able to get through another story where there are no consequences. I would bring Jesse back, I just think he needs a break, and I would include Jacob in the story for that time because I liked Jacob and I don't think Darnell deserves to lose his job for this shock value storyline.

If Jessie does go to jail, it shouldn't be for long, imo. This is a victimless crime as far as we know. Well, I suppose in a sense Angie is a victim. It all depends on how you look at it.

Hey, I'm a Jesse fan not a Jesse hater! But Angie under the given circumstances finding herself a little torn between Jacob and Jesse would at least be a return to a more traditional less potentially character assassinating tale (especially since we know she'll choose Jesse in the end). I don't want to see Jesse (or Brot for that matter) go to jail at all, I don't even want to see more reprimands from Mayor Blanco and snark from David. I'm praying he gets the sympathy and some credit for saving a baby opposed to coddling for popping it out and leaving it in the back of a police car.

Jesse should have stayed dead, IMO. I don't care what anyone says (I don't curr what NOBODY say!!), there was absolutely no plausible way to bring Jesse back to life. And there are tons of back-from-the-dead stories that I feel the exact same way about, but this one frustrated me so much because I really liked the idea of Angie and Frankie coming to Pine Valley and being a very close and protective mother-son force to be reckoned with at PVH and around town in general. Of course I've loved having Jesse around for the most part (in the family stuff), but Debbi and Cornelius would have been enough for me, provided they were written for and treated correctly, which -- for anyone on any soap -- is the exception, not the role. So, basically, IDGAF.

Jesse returning was never the issue cause as you've said it's been done.

And despite certain viewers (at times valid) issues with some of Darnell's choices he & Debbi were/are good enough actors to make it work.

The real problem is ABC & Daytime in general thoroughly emasculating any & all minority male characters regardless of ethnicity, sexuality, age or vet status.

Look no further than OLTL to see how quickly Vimal has gone MIA while Rama does the majority of the work.

Had any other legendary character returned & been treated the way Jesse has the audience would be highly upset.

He can't even be police chief without being made to be so morally compromised that characters he helped pave the way for can freely participate their vigilante justice carte blanche while others in similar positions (Bo on OLTL, Mac on GH) are painted as the unequivocal good guys/heroes by their respective shows & viewers.

THAT'S the real issue.

But viewers would rather make strawmen out of their issues with Darnell's acting and/or Jesse's resurrection than actually deal with the real issues that plague ABC & Daytime as a whole.

The Stickney's, The Rowells, The Reynolds, The Holly's & The Tunie's can discuss race discrimination & it's continued effect on Daytime but it doesn't matter as long as viewers are willing to ignore them & justify writing that blatantly sets minorities up to fail.

How many Bryton's & Tika's & Daphnee's & Cornelius & Tatyana's & Shannon's (for starters) have to leave Daytime to get decent work for it to be an issue?

And if the appalling treatment of Claywell & Evans (to say nothing of Bianca on AMC or Lucas on GH) wasn't proof enough that TPTB don't care about gay characters/issues then it's best that soaps are being canceled cause the message couldn't be made any clearer.

Edited March 25, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

Jesse returning was never the issue cause as you've said it's been done.

And despite certain viewers (at times valid) issues with some of Darnell's choices he & Debbi were/are good enough actors to make it work.

The real problem is ABC & Daytime in general thoroughly emasculating any & all minority male characters regardless of ethnicity, sexuality, age or vet status.

Look no further than OLTL to see how quickly Vimal has gone MIA while Rama does the majority of the work.

Had any other legendary character returned & been treated the way Jesse has the audience would be highly upset.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm definitely not a fan of what they've done to Jesse, especially now that I've spent time watching a lot of his original run. I feel like when he's with his family, he's great. He's everything I think the character of Jesse would be as a father, father-in-law, husband, etc. But in nearly every other context, they basically write him as the police chief who happens to be BFF with the Martins and married to evilDavid's arch rival, Dr. Angela Hubbard.

I think the division between fans who still like Jesse and those who hate him goes back to something I used to talk about ages ago in regards to ATWT (and a little bit of AMC, too, with Kendall and Greenlee), and it's that when a character a fan hates is being written horribly out of character, it's all about the character, but when it's a character the fan loves, it's all about the horrible writers. I think the closest thing I've seen to a long-running, beloved character taking the blame as opposed to the writers (who should ALWAYS get the blame because the characters aren't real!) might have been a year ago when Clint was losing his damn mind on that other soap.

Jesse's obnoxious behavior got to me time and time again last year, but that was virtually the same for that entire clique of characters, Tad and Jake being even worse in my eyes than Jesse. When I slip into that zone of forgetting that these are fictional characters written by writers, I tend to hold all of them to that level (which is why I called ATWT's Carly out on her constant desperate Gotta get Jaaackkk backkkk schemes).

I guess I oughta say, I wasn't opposed to Jesse's return in the least bit until the whole Papel/Pipelle/WHATEVER bullsh!t started. I just couldn't...not with that nonsense. That's when I realized I'd have just preferred Angie and Frankie instead of some weird, convoluted, nonsensical, contrived garbage about hit men and diamonds to explain why Jesse didn't die even though I've seen the clip of him dying hundreds of times.

Edited March 25, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

If Jessie does go to jail, it shouldn't be for long, imo. This is a victimless crime as far as we know. Well, I suppose in a sense Angie is a victim. It all depends on how you look at it.

It is a victimless crime, aside from what is done to Angie, but it's also a crime in a town full of people who have done such horrible things and never paid for it. It's not necessarily fair to make Jesse pay when others have not, but I just think the character should be written out for some months after this as I think it would do serious damage to his relationship with Angie and it would take a lot of time to come back from that.

It is a victimless crime, aside from what is done to Angie, but it's also a crime in a town full of people who have done such horrible things and never paid for it. It's not necessarily fair to make Jesse pay when others have not, but I just think the character should be written out for some months after this as I think it would do serious damage to his relationship with Angie and it would take a lot of time to come back from that.

I would be OK with 6 months, but I think we should see him in jail like they did with Erica. The main reason I think there might have to be jail time is because Jessie is the police chief and a hero. When the villain does something wrong, he can lie and scheme to get out of it. That's why it's (sort of) believable that David keeps getting away with all this BS (I like David and Jessie both). When the hero does something wrong, he's not going to go to extreme lengths to cover it up. Maybe Jessie could get off on temporary insanity, if he does really lose it. I doubt they'd go there though.

Dee is right about Jesse. He became a joke very, very quickly. And this story is even more ruinous than the Natalia/Rebecca story. This is not equality in storylines, it's just a bad OOC storyline.

Edited March 25, 201114 yr by Vee

But in nearly every other context, they basically write him as the police chief who happens to be BFF with the Martins and married to evilDavid's arch rival, Dr. Angela Hubbard.

But again that's about the writing for DAVID (which is a whole other issue).

Damage to The Martin Family aside prior to their return Jesse & Angie were genuinely good, moral characters but they can't be that way anymore cause moral relativism & blatant favoritism (both from the show & viewers) during their absence has thoroughly warped the canvas.

And that's been going on from the very minute Angie (and later Jesse) returned to the canvas with Angie being bashed for being friends with Krystal & Jesse not being absolutely perfect (pre-Henry North) as Chief.

Viewers were all too happy to accept & justify the writing for Angie & Jesse instead of having issues with it cause that same moral relativism & warped writing helped benefit their favorite characters (in this case David) & the show was all too happy to accommodate them due to their lack of investment in their minority characters.

I think the division between fans who still like Jesse and those who hate him goes back to something I used to talk about ages ago in regards to ATWT (and a little bit of AMC, too, with Kendall and Greenlee), and it's that when a character a fan hates is being written horribly out of character, it's all about the character, but when it's a character the fan loves, it's all about the horrible writers. I think the closest thing I've seen to a long-running, beloved character taking the blame as opposed to the writers (who should ALWAYS get the blame because the characters aren't real!) might have been a year ago when Clint was losing his damn mind on that other soap.

It's disturbing (yet not surprising) that a legendary character (a minority one no less) was brought back & disrespected so thoroughly but very few were upset about the horrible writing (in fact going great lengths to justify it) yet THEN were willing to blame the characters but NOT the writer.

A writer who happily stated he had no regard for previous character development.

Jesse's obnoxious behavior got to me time and time again last year, but that was virtually the same for that entire clique of characters, Tad and Jake being even worse in my eyes than Jesse. When I slip into that zone of forgetting that these are fictional characters written by writers, I tend to hold all of them to that level (which is why I called ATWT's Carly out on her constant desperate Gotta get Jaaackkk backkkk schemes).

Fair enough.

But Tad & Jake are White (contrary to popular opinion color DOES matter) so no matter WHAT they do AMC & most of the viewing audience will (eventually) free pass them.

They will always be considered "viable" (if not always likeable) & will always have story.

Same with Ryan, JR, Scott, David & any other White Males on the canvas.

Not so much with minority characters who are given much less, expected to do much more & treated like garbage no matter age, skill or tenure.

I guess I oughta say, I wasn't opposed to Jesse's return in the least bit until the whole Papel/Pipelle/WHATEVER bullsh!t started. I just couldn't...not with that nonsense. That's when I realized I'd have just preferred Angie and Frankie instead of some weird, convoluted, nonsensical, contrived garbage about hit men and drug lords to explain why Jesse didn't die even though I've seen the clip of him dying hundreds of times.

Jesse & Angie were fine up through their marriage (almost solely due to Darnell & Debbi's chemistry) but it was clear Jesse's return backstory wasn't thought out.

Look no further than Jesse's confession about his breakdown to Angie or the Rebecca/Natalia explanation to see that Darnell had absolutely no idea how to play it (which is hard to blame him cause it made no sense then & still doesn't).

Both times it was like DJ on Roseanne telling the story when the lights went out.

"There was this guy & he was walking down the street & he kept walking then he found something & then he lost it & there was this car with a guy in it then he got something & there was this dog & he was barking because the window was open not so muchhe could jump out but THE END!"

Not to mention the complete dismissal of Derek during the Papel story (two 40+ Black Men in town & they're BOTH cops! DEAR GOD IN HEAVEN) or the complete disaster that is Vasi: High Class Hooker From The Streets.

Edited March 25, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

When the hero does something wrong, he's not going to go to extreme lengths to cover it up.

But Jesse has gone to extreme lengths to cover wrong doing... granted it wasn't his but to cover up a murder was extreme to me... considering all that Jesse had done, if he is going to jail it shouldn't be for this, the least of his crimes.

While it creeps me out to think about his throwing dirt on baby Ellie, I do sympathize with Jesse here... if I am angry at him for anything, its that thought his intentions are good, his actions are making things worse for Angie... she will now have to suffer the loss of 2 babies once she finds out the truth.

And this story is even more ruinous than the Natalia/Rebecca story. This is not equality in storylines, it's just a bad OOC storyline.

I don't think so... with Natalia, he was willing and did hang Natalia out to dry and he basically disowned her (OOC) to save his butt... but here, he isn't trying to keep something from Angie for his sake and he isn't disowning his child... burying her like that is creepy but he isn't denying her like he did Natalia.

Edited March 25, 201114 yr by Sleepy

So they're copying Y&R right down to the baby's name? Uh wow. That alone should piss off J&A fans

On the bright side, at least this story has people who can act and bathe properly.

So true

"There was this guy & he was walking down the street & he kept walking then he found something & then he lost it & there was this car with a guy in it then he got something & there was this dog & he was barking because the window was open not so muchhe could jump out but THE END!"

LOL! One of the best Roseanne moments ever!

Of course burying a baby (period, let alone by hand) is beyond sad and, yes, creepy and usually left to mentally ill characters in theatre and film. You never know what's spin with these people, but at least it sounds like that scene was handled well and played beautifully by Darnell.

Participating in this thread has affirmed my soap viewing ability to accept/reject/disconnect at will... a skill I've had to acquire in order to go on enjoying these shows while seeing them for what they are, all the incompetence and crap that gets squised out from BTS. Regardless of how THEY make Jesse or any other character I have enjoyed look, I can see beyond the faults in the writing, the agendas, whatever, it won't change my opinions of the characters when I see that they are clearly being mishandled in spite of themselves. The best I can do is write a strong letter expressing my disdain for the character assassination and hope that it doesn't fall on blind eyes. My other alternatives are not to watch, or as I suggest, watch with my own mental edit button at work. It shouldn't have to be this way, but this is what soaps have become (for me, at least).