Most of it was MAB's fault, although I think that it all ended up getting much bigger when they tried to use this as a reason Chris Engen quit. Then suddenly these oh so shocking scenes of Adam straightening another man's tie appeared, and it became a joke. The five minute story of Phillip's return was even more ridiculous. But still, that type of story is the type that will win a GLAAD Award. GLAD bag, more like.

What I liked about the way Kyle and Fish were included was the sense of community and friendship that OLTL had not had in a long time, and which soaps had not had in recent years. They made their own family. It was very unique. To see that tossed away in favor of insta-families like the Fords and Rex sucking the life out of yet another paternity saga was incredibly depressing. And the show lost tons of viewers. Funny how ABC did not go to the press and blame shaven monkeys for ratings losses.

That isn't true, Bianca has had numerous stories throughout her tenure that have dealt with her sexuality. And isn't it a good thing that her sexuality isn't all they focus on. She has had Lena, Zarf, Frankie, Maggie, Reese, her closeness with Babe, that one random chick, and now Marissa.

One of the other things that helped Bianca's story (as twisted as this sounds) was being raped and having a child. That's one of the challenges the writers would have to face with a legacy kid is no continuing of the legacy. That gave B and the rest of the Kanes stories for years that were about B's sexuality but not really.

One of the other things that helped Bianca's story (as twisted as this sounds) was being raped and having a child. That's one of the challenges the writers would have to face with a legacy kid is no continuing of the legacy. That gave B and the rest of the Kanes stories for years that were about B's sexuality but not really.

But there's a natural story avenue! After you tell the story of the couple falling in love and getting together/married, you can explore the options facing a same-sex couple trying to start a family. Do they use a surrogate? Do they adopt? You can soap those scenarios up in so many ways. Hell, the 2001 Days baby switch could have had a gay couple substituted for Abe & Lexie (who adopted from Marlo).

That's one of the challenges the writers would have to face with a legacy kid is no continuing of the legacy.

Gay people have kids, too, yeah. And not usually because they were raped.

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

As much as I criticized the "Kish" story and still would criticize most of the writing, I do feel like OLTL tried to create a natural place for fish on the canvas - it was Kyle I don't think was that well integrated - and I think they would have told a lot of story for them if ABC had not intervened and gone on a minority purge. It's tough for me to compare that to any other degayings in daytime because that was one of the most brutal and personal purges I've seen on a soap.

Early Kyle/Oliver wasn't my cuppa, but the stuff post-wedding/pre-Sierra Rose were good with me, so good that I was very willing to just make some allowances for the over-the-top wedding stuff and the white-washing of Kyle's crimes and schemes. But again, that was less the writing and more Brett and Scott. I thought they were doing a good job by making a bond between Kyle and Roxy, and one of my little ideas was that Kyle would intervene with Rex/Roxy and call Rex out on being whiney and childish. I was also a huge fan of Kyle and Oliver living with Cris and Layla, but...well, we know how that all turned out.

Yeah, while the story wasn't perfect, I thought the show did a good job considering the two characters they chose were new & not gay when they first came on. A lot I think did have to do with Brett & Scott. I agree that Kyle wasn't that integrated & his family back story is a mess that don't make sense, but I think had they stayed they could easily said Kyle was a adopted & tied him to someone else and Ron probably would have eventually got around to doing something like that. The show had lots of story they could have told with Kish. One was a cop, the other a docter. THe police station & the hospital are usually a soaps two most visited sets. No excuse how they couldn't come up with more story for them. One of my favorite bonds was the quad of Kyle, Fish, Cris & Layla as well. Not did it actually make Cris interesting & bring out a bit of acting in Fumero, but I thought they made a great "new age family". Such a shame Kish had their final scenes with Gigi instead of them.

This brings me to DAYS, OLTL actually like Kyle & Fish kiss & got a sex scene just like a straight couple would, but ATWT rarely let their gays kiss & they never got an actual sex scene. Which path will DAYS take if they do this? I'm guessing, probably more like ATWT, but I'd love to have them prove me wrong.

I miss Lucas and Celeste.

Two character names I wouldn't have expected to see in the same sentence but I agree with ya.

Gay people have kids, too, yeah. And not usually because they were raped.

+1 and LOL

Gay people have kids, too, yeah. And not usually because they were raped.

(I knew I was going to be misunderstood as soon as I clicked reply)

Of course they do, a number of my gay friends have kids. What I'm saying is that the whole "legacy" question didn't need to be gone into in depth as well as the character's sexuality. Daytime is easily 30 years behind in the socially progressive landscape. Women are just now hyphenating their names and that's only if they have big careers first (and more than a few marriages under their belt). Daytime is only ready to deal with one part of "the gay issue" yet and that's just attraction and relationship. The whole set up is not there to support gay families the way it is heteros. I think it needs to get there sooner rather than later, but they aren't going to forget their main viewing population doesn't come from the left-of-centre.

(I knew I was going to be misunderstood as soon as I clicked reply)

Of course they do, a number of my gay friends have kids. What I'm saying is that the whole "legacy" question didn't need to be gone into in depth as well as the character's sexuality. Daytime is easily 30 years behind in the socially progressive landscape. Women are just now hyphenating their names and that's only if they have big careers first (and more than a few marriages under their belt). Daytime is only ready to deal with one part of "the gay issue" yet and that's just attraction and relationship. The whole set up is not there to support gay families the way it is heteros. I think it needs to get there sooner rather than later, but they aren't going to forget their main viewing population doesn't come from the left-of-centre.

I understand completely, and I hope you don't feel antagonized or anything. I just think making allowances like that hurt much more than help. There are tons of things they can do with gay characters/couples/parents/etc, but we're going to accept that they won't do it because there are people out there who are filled with obsessive and baseless hate? They have to make a choice about what they want to do and who they care about. Don't give me something new and interesting and then say "That's it, we'll go no further." Go big or go home.

Edited March 23, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

It was a real breath of fresh air to have a new, non-traditional family unit. OLTL of all shows is the one where core families are a joke - most of them don't care about each other and they only hotglue their pets onto these families to try to manipulate viewers into liking them. If you are an original member of the family then the show will treat you with hostility or kill you off. I guess if the choice is between Fish or Kyle being grafted on like the vile Rex and being written out, I'm glad they were written out.

Remember, folks, this is DAYS. This is the same show which had Michael Horton go to the trouble of sleeping with his father's former mistress just to prove how gay he wasn't. So I wouldn't expect their "gay story" to be as good as the UK "Queer as Folk," if I were you. Heck, we'll be lucky if it's as good as the U.S. one.

I understand completely, and I hope you don't feel antagonized or anything. I just think making allowances like that hurt much more than help. There are tons of things they can do with gay characters/couples/parents/etc, but we're going to accept that they won't do it because there are people out there who are filled with obsessive and baseless hate? They have to make a choice about what they want to do and who they care about. Don't give me something new and interesting and then say "That's it, we'll go no further." Go big or go home.

No, I didn't.

I'm Canadian. A couple of phone calls I and I can preside over a gay wedding anywhere in my province. Another phone call and I can baptize any baby that comes before me. I WANT equality for you folks down south (not that we're perfect by any stretch - and I'm not suggesting it). But from everything I've seen there is a huge chasm between the socially progressive and the socially conservative in your country, and unfortunately the majority of soap watches are on the conservative side. For all their want to push the envelope - and I do believe writers and actors are completely ready to go there - the networks know who butters their bread.

I would love for them to go full out - have it all. Gay, straight, bi, trans, everything. Show us what real life looks like. But we're talking about an industry that can hardly bring themselves to do interracial hetero couples.

Well, it looks like the remaining soaps are trying to get in on the gay act! DAYS is going to make an attempt and I agree with those who say it just has to be Will and Chad! I mean, they just have IT! Everything works in their favor for them to be the chosen ones. There's also lingering rumors over at B&B that rising young fashion designer Thomas Forrester is set to be crowned the first major gay character for THAT show. I like this but I do find it somewhat surprising that remaining soaps are wanting to give this a try!

The remaining soaps want to "give it a try," b/c gay is big business these days. Pure and simple.

I remeber once that Ken Corday gave an interview in the 90's regarding,- at that time would Dayswould ever do a gay storyline. This might have been around the time that AMC wa doing a gay storyline with a teacher or something named Micheal maybe? But anyway, Ken said something to the effect, He doesn;t think people would want to see a Abe and Roman having love scenes. Meaning he was against it. My how times have changed.