Y&R week of December 13

[DeeeDee]

Just cause it's done doesn't mean viewers are gonna be happy with it though.

Especially since Maria's blatantly disregarding whole characters & huge parts of history to burn through a pointless story that will be over in 6 months to (at best) a year.

Yep.

But there's a big difference from going from Alex to Susan than it is from Susan to Maura (let alone Alex to Maura).

And again since the point of deSORASing Diane is to pair her with younger leading men & continue treating her like completely different characters it's all pointless.

There was a fair bit (about 10-15 years) before the idiotic "trust fund" retcon, Noah's unnecessary SORASing & Victoria being recast with Amelia.

That doesn't change the the character's previous histories though.

Longtime viewers aren't just gonna forget (or find any less nasty) that Diane used to be Nick's stepmom just cause Maura's a good actress in a miscast role.

It's like SORASing Abby yet leaving Kyle 10 or acting like Daniel & Kevin are teenagers when they're closer to 30/40.

Definitely.

That's the thing though.

Most people have been really happy to have Maura on Y&R.

It's the writing & casting they have issue with which again should be no surprise given Y&R has tanked every soap vet they've cast in the past couple of years.

Seriously though if Stephen Nichols can't make a character work what would make anyone think Maura would fare any better?

The majority of the actors working with Maura are 15-20 years older than her.

Yet instead of writing Diane they only care about writing for Maura & treating Diane as a random "vixen".

It's like recasting John Dixon with James Scott or Stephanie Forrester with Gina Tognoni & expecting it to work.

[Soaplovers]

I enjoy watching Maura but she just isn't Diane. She's too young, too blond, and just doesn't have the essence of the Diane character. It's obvious TPTB know this because she told Nick that she's less fierce then she used to be.

If Diane hadn't come back in Feb, I would have bought this change but the character was back for a visit months ago and was still fierce and snarky. Plus, she gave it to Phyllis without batting an eye (unlike recently where Diane lost her temper, acted more emotional, etc).

[Juliajms]

No one has to be happy with anything, but pretending that Diane is still supposed to be 50 isn't realistic. I see what my eyes show me. Nick is 30 something, Diane is now 30 something and Phyllis is early 40's. None of that is a shocking age difference. I have no problem with some people's unhappiness that Diane has been changed radically, but when people deny that change has even happened they start sounding a little over zealous.

No one is asking anyone to forget or even be happy with the change, just to accept that TPTB have made this choice (ageist and sexist though it may be) and it's the new reality. Diane was Nick's step mom, but so what? It's not like she was tucking him in at night.

Still, If people want to say "ewww Nick is doing his step Mom", I take no issue with that. When people say "ewww Nick is doing a 50 year old" that's when I think people need to just accept that it's a show and things change (I'm not talking about SON posters). It's pretty obvious that the character is no longer meant to be 50 something.

Sure, I'd love an older Diane and for Maura to have come on as Nikki's daughter from her pre-Victor days, but that's not what happened. Hell, I've never been the biggest MW cheerleader out there, but I think this recast is working pretty well. This is far from the first time that a character has been taken in a radically new direction. It could be much, much worse.

[DeeeDee]

It's also not realistic to drastically retcon one character yet leave all the characters the retconned character has major history with the same age then thrust the retconned character in stories with those characters children all while acting like it's normal.

Nick is 30 something with a 20 something living child (let alone a deceased daughter that now due to retconned history would be close to 30) or "early 40's" Giggly Heffa who is the parent of a late 20/early 30 something son.

Again though people don't have a problem with change.

They have a problem with the sloppy incongruity Maria's Y&R expects them to accept.

It's especially an issue on a show like Y&R that unlike it's Daytime peers had a relatively long history of honoring it's character & history.

And every time Maria has tried to utilize her "new reality" she's failed.

It's like the way certain people insisted Liz's Chloe HAVE to be Kate to "strengthen her ties" to the show.

Is Chloe anymore "strengthened" to the canvas cause she's Esther's daughter?

Did Mackenzie being Katherine's biological grandchild guarantee her a continued place on the canvas?

How about Jill "Never had a place where she belonged" Fenmore, Chance "MIA" Chancellor, Billy "Jill & John never loved me" Abbott, Heather "Adam Who?" Stevens, Adam "Blind Baby Thief" Newman or Malcolm "UncleDaddy" Winters?

...Exactly.

They were still family at one point & Nick would never sleep with one of his father's wives.

But what again what do existing characters & history matter when Y&R has MAURAWEST!

Worked out real well for Stephen Nichols.

Which is why she never should have been made Diane in the first place.

If some want to go along with what Maria/Hogan/Hamner/Rauch have done they are welcome to it but their previous "reimagining" of existing characters haven't exactly been success stories.

How so?

[Sylph]

And they are accepting it: the ratings are falling, but not drastically, the way one would expect them to fall. This Olympus in flames show is pretty stable and you can change pretty to unbelievably considering how dreadful and insulting it is all around.

[P.J.]

Thanks Juliajms.

[Juliajms]

No problem. The thing to remember is that Nick is at the center of a propetual fanbase war. Possibly the most bitter fan war in Y&R history. Phick V. Shick. Now with a side of Shadam in the mix. So I think some of the comments over at the board that shall not be named is a result of stepping into the middle if that triangle. Nick is the Sonny (GH) of Y&R in that respect. Fans fight over who he is going to be with as if he's the hottest guy on planet earth. I will never understand it.

As to Josh Marrow, he's very vocal about his preference of working with MS. It kind of shocks me how honest he's been about that. Most actors in a popular triangle try to keep both sides happy, but not JM. Looks like nothing has changed on that front. Thank god actors don't dictate the story on Y&R the way they seem to at GH.

[DeeeDee]

A one sided "war" at best.

And the only reason Nick's at the center is cause of Y&R's various agendas & not because Y&R has a history of that type of fan interaction (beyond N/V/A) unlike other soaps.

Not really.

There wasn't a lot of problems when Nick kissed Cricket outside of it being random nor were there problems with the rumored Nick/Heather pairing beyond Eden being miscast.

There were even quite a few fans hoping for a Nick/Skye pairing when it became apparent Adam/Skye weren't gonna last.

A lot of people were excited about having Maura on Y&R.

The problem they had was casting her as an established character with tons of ties then proceeding to ignore said ties & writing her as a completely new character while expecting longtime viewers to just accept it.

Which didn't work when Jack Smith & LML did it so why should Maria/Hogan/Hamner/Rauch get a free pass?

Again though it wasn't always that way.

And the only reason it continues is because Y&R continues to attempt to be ABC soaps no matter how many characters have to be destroyed or Y&R canvas has to be sacrificed to make it happen.

Since when?

Over the past several years most of Y&R's vets have had quite a bit of input about their stories & have been vocal to the soap press about things that they don't like so while they don't ALWAYS get what they want they definitely get more than most (except when the Minorities).

[Juliajms]

How to you figure that? There have been as many vocal Sharon/Nick fans as Phyllis/Nick. I've seen a ton of fighting between these groups over the last few years. Thankfully not so much here, but it's out there.

I never said it did, but that doesn't change the fact that it happened in this case.

He didn't sleep with either of these people. Neither is a credible threat to either Shick or Phick. And while that war has died down, since both ladies have moved on, there are plenty of people who still want him with their favorite.

[DeeeDee]

One side had (and still has) a LOT more justification when it comes to any kind of "fan wars" in that triangle but like Blair/Todd/Tea neither "triangle" will ever be dealt with fairly (by the show or certain fans) so there's no use in discussing it.

But it's basically over.

Between Josh Morrow's extremely lazy acting & Nick's lack of commitment to either woman over the past couple of years both sides have pretty much moved on.

There's still the occasional sniping but for the most part most fans of Sharon & Giggly just want their respective woman away from Nick.

But the point was that people didn't like Maura's Diane cause she was being paired with Nick which isn't really true cause while there may be small parts of both fanbases (Nick/Sharon & Nick/Giggly) that don't want him with Diane cause she isn't Sharon or Giggly many more have issue with Maura's Diane beyond petty fanbase wars (Diane's impending pairing with Nick just being one issue amongst many).

I totally understand what you're saying about adapting to certain retcons & Maura is a strong enough actress where if Y&R cared enough to write Diane AS Diane & not an interchangeable "vixen" she probably would be a successful recast despite many fans misgivings.

But again given Maria's consistent failures at retooling established characters things don't look good for Maura's Diane.

But t

[Mr. Vixen]

DeeDee,

Just wondering...Do you like Maura as Diane less than you liked Susan Walters?

I'm assuming Alex Donnelley was your favorite, as she is with most people.

[DeeeDee]

You're right that Alex will always be my favorite but I like Susan more (for now) only because Maura has yet to be written as Diane.

[DRW50]

There has been no Diane for about ten years now. It's tough to watch Maura on here because nothing is really about her, or about a character. I don't like seeing Maura play a role that is all about being degraded by men. I want her to do well and I don't want to see her go, so I'm not going to talk about how she has to go, but I sure hope that at some point someone with talent comes onto this show as a writer or producer and figures out how to use her. She carried ATWT for years.

[P.J.]

I thought I had seen some things being a Carjacker (and observing the Meg/Em wars) but some of that stuff is on an entirely different level. I'm sure some of it is just agenda. But some is just nasty. And considering how little Maura's been on, kind of mystifying.

AFAIC, Diane was never a well-defined character. I hope Maura gets a chance to define her.

[DRW50]

Diane was a fantastic character from about 98-99 - I haven't seen a lot of her earlier stint. I couldn't watch most of what she did with Susan in the role.

The real problem with Y&R now is they are so crass and they bounce around so much, which means most fan bases feel annoyed or dejected. Most soaps have absolute couples, but aside from Victor/Nikki, Y&R has none. Instead you have stuff like Shick and Phick where both relationships have been made toxic but because both relationships are still drawn out, the fans are still vocal.