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9 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

 

Some other tidbits

Eve admitted to sleeping with Derek in the past (possibility that Charles was his child?)

Peggy arrested after leaving Jack's apartment naked under a fur coat! (wonder what set was used as Jack's apt?)

Eve befriending Peggy.

Victor flirting with Peggy.

Greg dating Peggy.

 

I remember the thing with Derek & Eve.  (I actually assumed the child -- Charles Victor Howard -- was probably Derek's kid, because a blond actor was used to play the boy, and Derek and Eve were both blondes.   The child looked nothing like Victor.)   There was a convoluted mess where Derek hated Victor, because Victor had sorta "replaced" Derek at Chancellor Industries.   Eve also had a vendetta against Victor, because Victor wouldn't acknowledge the kid, whom she claimed was Victor's son.   Derek and Eve somehow broke into a doctor's office, got ahold of Victor's medical files, and mailed them to Julia, who was pregnant.   Julia was horrified to learn Victor had undergone a vasectomy, because she was pregnant with a child she was hoping was Victor's but she feared was probably Michael Scott's.   She lost the kid, and it turned out to be Victor's, I think. 

 

I remember Peggy teasing Jack by being naked under the fur coat.   (Hard to believe this was the same Peggy who wouldn't sleep with Jack Curtis a few years earlier, but we were led to believe that Jack Abbott had reawakened her sexual urges.  The apartment used for Jack Abbott was just a random apartment set.)

 

Made sense for Peggy to befriend Eve, because Eve had taken a job at the newspaper working for Stuart Brooks, and Peggy worked there too as a reporter.  The fans all assumed that Eve would be usurping Liz as Stuart's new wife, because Eve was becoming his "social secretary" as well as his business secretary.  

 

I don't remember Victor EVER flirting with Peggy.   Can't visualize that at all.

 

Greg and Peggy dated a few times.   It was the set-up for a storyline that never took off about dilapidated housing and slumlords.   (That storyline was utilized later, in the early 1990s, with Cricket Blair and the Rainbow Gardens apartments.  It was a snoozer then, and I'm sure it would've been a snoozer with Greg and Peggy, as well.) 

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3 minutes ago, Broderick said:

I don't remember Victor EVER flirting with Peggy.   Can't visualize that at all.

I wonder what the circumstances were,did they cross paths at Jonas's? If it was a throwaway scene, it did get mentioned in synopses. But some mentions in those newspaper summaries could be random.

 

The 1982 revamp seemed to coincide with Wes Kenney's arrival.  He and Bell had worked together on Days . Did Bill Bell have final word on who would be exec producer? I know there were reports of clashes with John Conboy. Does anyone have specifics?

So did Wes Kenney sit down with Bill and give his two cents worth? It seems so in light of the changes made. 

Interesting that Bell needed someone to whip the show into shape when he has always been presented as having total control of the writing.

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14 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I wonder what the circumstances were,did they cross paths at Jonas's? If it was a throwaway scene, it did get mentioned in synopses. But some mentions in those newspaper summaries could be random.

 

The 1982 revamp seemed to coincide with Wes Kenney's arrival.  He and Bell had worked together on Days . Did Bill Bell have final word on who would be exec producer? I know there were reports of clashes with John Conboy. Does anyone have specifics?

So did Wes Kenney sit down with Bill and give his two cents worth? It seems so in light of the changes made. 

Interesting that Bell needed someone to whip the show into shape when he has always been presented as having total control of the writing.

 

The scene with Victor and Peggy --- if it happened --- must've been a "one-off" at the Allegro, and I must've missed that day.  

 

About John Conboy:   I believe maybe we were misled about how much "control" Bill Bell had over the production of the show in its early years.  There are some long but interesting (separate) interviews with Wes Kenney, Bill Bell, and Jeanne Cooper on the "Archive of American Television" site that shed a little more light on it.   My understanding is that Y&R was owned initially by three parties --- Bell Dramatic Serial Company (William J. Bell's production company), Screen Gems Television Productions (now SONY) and Corday Productions (1% interest, due to Bill Bell having been the headwriter at Days of Our Lives & breaking his contract to create Y&R).   I always assumed that Bill Bell was the "deciding vote" about every aspect of the show.  After listening to the three interviews (Bell, Kenney, and Cooper), I'm guessing that Screen Gems/SONY always called the shots.  

 

Jeanne Cooper revealed that she was contacted by John Conboy (not Bill Bell) about originating the role of Kay Chancellor.   The people she mentions meeting with were John Conboy and Patricia Wenig.   She talks about her audition process, and discusses how suave and handsome Conboy was, and then she says, "Patricia Wenig looked like someone who'd be running a pastry shop in Carmel, California."  I'd always thought Bill Bell was involved in ALL of the casting, even though he was in Chicago and the auditions were in Hollywood, but Jeanne's interview about her audition makes it sound as though Conboy and Wenig were doing most of the work.  (They might've overnighted a videotape of the audition to Bell for his approval before Jeanne signed the contract, but she specifically states that she auditioned for Conboy and Wenig, and then she began taping the following afternoon.   That doesn't allow much time for Bill Bell in Chicago to offer any input.) 

 

In Bill Bell's interview, he goes into some detail about his falling-out with John Conboy.   The interviewer asks Bell about some of the specific people he worked with, and to kindly make a few remarks about them.   When it's time to make a few "kind" remarks about John Conboy, Bell says he doesn't have anything "kind" to say, that he'd prefer to say nothing at all.   Then he starts talking.  lol.  In 1981, there was a writer's strike, and John Conboy was supposed to be keeping things running smoothly at the show.   Instead, according to Bill Bell, John Conboy spent money hand-over-fist on new sets, causing the show to go about two million dollar over budget.   Bell's production company was expected to come up with the two million dollar shortfall.   Bell's anger was that the deficit was due to Conboy creating all these elaborate sets that were then transferred over to "Capitol", the new soap that Conboy was developing.   I've tried to visualize which sets were designed for Y&R in 1981 and then transferred to Capitol in 1982 (which I rarely watched), and about the only thing I can come up with is maybe that London ballroom set from Y&R that could've been the basis for the living room set of the Clegg mansion on Capitol.   And maybe there were some random apartments created on Y&R in 1981 that became apartments or houses on Capitol in 1982.  But Bell was pretty furious about the deficit that Conboy incurred. 

 

Wes Kenney's interview reveals that Y&R was wasting a LOT of time and money in taping & production costs when he came aboard.   He says there was basically NO editing going on.   The show was being taped "in sequence".   They would move from one set to another, then back again to a previous set.   Kenney says he stopped all of that, and taped all the scenes in one set, then moved to another set.   Kenney also claims that the scenes were never spliced before he came along.  He says that Conboy was doing, say, three takes of a scene, and then choosing his favorite of the three takes to put on the master tape.   If Kenney got a more-or-less perfect scene out of the first take, but someone messed-up a line, Kenney would just re-tape the flub, and then splice it into perfect first take, rather than completely re-shoot the scene like Conboy had been doing.   

 

Also, I don't know how reliable of a source Brenda Dickson is, because she's obviously a raging lunatic and a liar (if you've scanned her "tell-all book" where she even gives her own age incorrectly lol).  BUT, if she's to be trusted at all, there was always some contention and disagreement between Bill Bell in Chicago and the producers in Hollywood.   SHE claims that Bill Bell would call her and fuss at her for not having CRIED in a scene where he'd specifically written "Jill begins to cry" in the script.  She alleges that the Hollywood producers (presumably either Wes Kenney or Ed Scott) were editing-out her tears, and then telling Bill Bell that she never cried during the scene.  Now obviously I don't believe anything she says, but I think her complaint is probably based on a true story.   I expect Bell was "running the show" from Chicago, and Wes Kenney was probably "running the show" from Hollywood, and that's a recipe for conflict.  You'll notice when Wes Kenney took the job at General Hospital and left Y&R in about 1987, Bill Bell made sure that he HIMSELF got a "senior executive producer" title, effectively putting a stop to any conflicts between the writing department and the production department.   And of course shortly after that is when the show hit #1 and started its 30-year reign at the top.  But up until 1987, I believe there was probably an occasional conflict between production and writing that Bell, in Chicago, generally lost-out on, because the production was being done 2,000 miles away from his watchful eye.

       

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Of the interviews I have read with John Conboy, he acts as if he was the sole reason for Y&R's success. I am sure he did a lot and I get the feeling Bell didn't want to micro manage, but wanted someone he could trust to take care of things so he was free to write, I get the feeling he saw his producer as a partner, not a boss. It seems like Conboy was doing real hands on producing and started getting an ego because of it. 

 

And yeah I doubt Bell was doing much in the way of producing in those early days, otherwise he most likely would have moved to LA sooner. The way he did in 1986 to get B&B off the ground. If there was no major issues, he probably just assumed Conboy was doing his job and let him go and maybe Conboy was feeding him a lot of garbage and Bell trusted him enough to believe it

 

There are a few things I believe Bell would have never agreed to and if he did it may have been through Conboy's manipulations. Firstly letting go of Janice Lynde, from what I understand she was pretty pragmatic about staying or going, but at the time it was reported that Conboy was sick of her, he felt she had faked a back injury and called in sick in 1976 as a grandstanding to a new contract negotiation. So he let her go and she happily went. I get the feeling Bell would have worked harder to keep her there. Second letting the actors out of their contracts when the show went to an hour, if Bell did approve of this, it seems odd. He hated the idea of expanding, so to deal with the stress of that on top of losing key actors seems an odd thing to do and I feel this was Conboy again. Either it was just an arogant decision (the actors don't make the show) that didn't take into account Bell's needs or it was sabotage, as the way Bell talks about Conboy makes it sound like he wasn't above that. 

Edited by will81

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In terms of Brenda, I get the feeling she eventually decided she knew how to play Jill better than Bell knew how to write her. I think the producers probably did get sick of her and maybe did sabotage her to get her off the show, hence her recollections. The only cast member besides Jeanne that I have ever heard talk about Brenda was Beth Maitland, who said Brenda was not a giving scene partner. That she made it difficult for anyone during a scene because she basically gave them nothing to play off. 

 

I wonder if Brenda gave nothing to the other actor and then gave it all in her side, but the production team used the bad takes to sabotage her. It would explain why her performances were so inconsistent in the last couple of years. The bad word on Brenda didn't start until 1985, which is also when her performances got worse. But even in 1987 she could still knock a scene out of the park. There is a scene with her and Phillip when he comes over for dinner and it is like having the old Jill back. The soft, calm and polite Jill with the icy veneer. The Jill I loved from 1983 and early 1984. 

 

Brenda also states she had health problems and they didn't believe her, I think she did have health issues but that she had cried wolf too many times.

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22 minutes ago, will81 said:

Of the interviews I have read with John Conboy, he acts as if he was the sole reason for Y&R's success. I am sure he did a lot and I get the feeling Bell didn't want to micro manage, but wanted someone he could trust to take care of things so he was free to write, I get the feeling he saw his producer as a partner, not a boss. It seems like Conboy was doing real hands on producing and started getting an ego because of it. 

 

And yeah I doubt Bell was doing much in the way of producing in those early days, otherwise he most likely would have moved to LA sooner. The way he did in 1986 to get B&B off the ground. If there was no major issues, he probably just assumed Conboy was doing his job and let him go and maybe Conboy was feeding him a lot of garbage and Bell trusted him enough to believe it

 

There are a few things I believe Bell would have never agreed to and if he did it may have been through Conboy's manipulations. Firstly letting go of Janice Lynde, from what I understand she was pretty pragmatic about staying or going, but at the time it was reported that Conboy was sick of her, he felt she had faked a back injury and called in sick in 1976 as a grandstanding to a new contract negotiation. So he let her go and she happily went. I get the feeling Bell would have worked harder to keep her there. Second letting the actors out of their contracts when the show went to an hour, if Bell did approve of this, it seems odd. He hated the idea of expanding, so to deal with the stress of that on top of losing key actors seems an odd thing to do and I feel this was Conboy again. Either it was just an arogant decision (the actors don't make the show) that didn't take into account Bell's needs or it was sabotage, as the way Bell talks about Conboy makes it sound like he wasn't above that. 

The thing to remember about Conboy is that he had a huge ego. A young man, pretty and arrogant.

 

And, if I recall correctly, it was the show owner, Screen Gems at that time, that insisted on a 60 minute show. Bell was very unhappy about that but could not prevent it.

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6 minutes ago, Donna B said:

The thing to remember about Conboy is that he had a huge ego. A young man, pretty and arrogant.

 

And, if I recall correctly, it was the show owner, Screen Gems at that time, that insisted on a 60 minute show. Bell was very unhappy about that but could not prevent it.

Oh yeah it was definitely not Bell or even Conboy's decision to go to an hour. Bell had delayed the expansion a few times, but it was going to happen regardless. However I can't imagine anyone was okay to just let all those actors go at such a pivotal time. It reeks of Conboy's arrogance, thinking they were all easily replaced. My guess would have been Bell would have preferred if the actors had stuck around for at least one more year to help the transition.

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1 minute ago, will81 said:

Oh yeah it was definitely not Bell or even Conboy's decision to go to an hour. Bell had delayed the expansion a few times, but it was going to happen regardless. However I can't imagine anyone was okay to just let all those actors go at such a pivotal time. It reeks of Conboy's arrogance, thinking they were all easily replaced. My guess would have been Bell would have preferred if the actors had stuck around for at least one more year to help the transition.

Oh, yes, indeed! Totally agree.

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29 minutes ago, will81 said:

Second letting the actors out of their contracts when the show went to an hour, if Bell did approve of this, it seems odd. He hated the idea of expanding, so to deal with the stress of that on top of losing key actors seems an odd thing to do and I feel this was Conboy again. Either it was just an arogant decision (the actors don't make the show) that didn't take into account Bell's needs or it was sabotage, as the way Bell talks about Conboy makes it sound like he wasn't above that. 

 

I think the "opt-out clause" for actors was probably unavoidable, if the show expanded to an hour.   I'm not an entertainment attorney of course, but my understanding is that there's a clear distinction between working on a half-hour show versus working on a one-hour show, and the actors' contracts had been negotiated for a half-hour show. 

 

As far as writers go, I know that the Writers Guild of America establishes a minimum amount that a headwriter on a half-hour show is paid, which is vastly less than the minimum for a headwriter on a one-hour serial.  The 2018 mimimums are $21,842 per week for a half-hour serial, and $40,406 for a one-hour serial.   So if I'm the headwriter of a half-hour show, I'm going to have a contract which states something like, "Broderick shall be paid $22,000 per week and shall function as the headwriter of 'The Young and the Restless' and shall perform all the duties normally associated with the headwriter of a daytime serial."  Well, if the show suddenly expands to an hour, that voids my contract completely, and I must either negotiate a new contract based on the one-hour Writers Guild of America guidelines, or else walk away.  I'd assume the same situation probably exists for actors, directors, producers, camera guys, costume designers, set builders, and everyone else involved with the show.   Their contracts had been negotiated using certain union pay-scales that no longer applied once the show went to an hour.    

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10 minutes ago, Broderick said:

 

I think the "opt-out clause" for actors was probably unavoidable, if the show expanded to an hour.   I'm not an entertainment attorney of course, but my understanding is that there's a clear distinction between working on a half-hour show versus working on a one-hour show, and the actors' contracts had been negotiated for a half-hour show. 

 

As far as writers go, I know that the Writers Guild of America establishes a minimum amount that a headwriter on a half-hour show is paid, which is vastly less than the minimum for a headwriter on a one-hour serial.  The 2018 mimimums are $21,842 per week for a half-hour serial, and $40,406 for a one-hour serial.   So if I'm the headwriter of a half-hour show, I'm going to have a contract which states something like, "Broderick shall be paid $22,000 per week and shall function as the headwriter of 'The Young and the Restless' and shall perform all the duties normally associated with the headwriter of a daytime serial."  Well, if the show suddenly expands to an hour, that voids my contract completely, and I must either negotiate a new contract based on the one-hour Writers Guild of America guidelines, or else walk away.  I'd assume the same situation probably exists for actors, directors, producers, camera guys, costume designers, set builders, and everyone else involved with the show.   Their contracts had been negotiated using certain union pay-scales that no longer applied once the show went to an hour.    

Fair enough, though aren't actors under a different union to other actors in the industry even in television and their contracts completely different in structure? I'd be interested to know what the make up of their contracts were, as it seems soap actors have very little security and very little power over things. Which is why Beverlee McKinsey sticking it to JFP all those years ago was such a big deal, as it was rare for any soap actors to have the upper hand.

 

I think also it was Conboy's phrasing, as he made it seem as if he voided their contracts himself, that he was being "the good guy", at least that's the way I remember him talking about it in an interview.

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24 minutes ago, will81 said:

In terms of Brenda, I get the feeling she eventually decided she knew how to play Jill better than Bell knew how to write her. I think the producers probably did get sick of her and maybe did sabotage her to get her off the show, hence her recollections.

 

I assume that's probably the case, Will81.   It really sounds as though most of Brenda's castmates had gotten sick of her, the producers were about sick of her, and ultimately Bell himself was about sick of her.   There's no denying that she brought a certain something to the show, but I expect the consensus was reached that her certain "something" wasn't worth the headache of dealing with her on a daily basis.   I don't wanna dwell on it much, because she's obviously still a fairly divisive figure, with some people thinking she's a victim and others thinking she's the devil incarnate.   I found a copy of her "tell-all book" in a bargain bin and toyed with the idea of purchasing it, but after flipping through it for a few seconds and seeing all the boasting and self-importance, and noticing the lack of facts to substantiate her claims, and noticing that she even changed her year of birth from chapter to chapter, I just threw it back on the heap and said, "Well, that's Brenda for you!"  lol.  Her book came across much like her performances did in those final years --- just a strange, bizarre mish-mash of haughtiness and weirdness.     

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5 minutes ago, will81 said:

 

I think also it was Conboy's phrasing, as he made it seem as if he voided their contracts himself, that he was being "the good guy", at least that's the way I remember him talking about it in an interview.

 

Believe me, I wouldn't know anything about the structuring of their contracts -- (half-hour format versus the hour-format) --- except it came to my attention when Doug Davidson was complaining on Twitter last year that Mal Young stopped utilizing him entirely after he was bumped to recurring.  There was a scene last year where Lily Winters had to give a statement to the police department about a traffic accident in which Hilary Curtis was injured.   Instead of using Doug Davidson, they used Random Policewoman #1 to take Lily's statement.  Some viewers were asking why Paul Williams wasn't used instead of Random Policewoman #1.  So I looked on the Screen Actors Guild website to see how much Random Policewoman #1 was paid for taking Lily's statement.  There was a wealth of information:  an "under-five" (person who delivers fewer than 5 lines of dialogue) is guaranteed X-amount on a half-hour show, and a different amount on an hour-long show.  A "dayplayer" (person who delivers more than 5 lines but isn't under contract) is guaranteed X-amount on a half-hour show, and a different amount on an hour-long show.  A "contract cast member" is guaranteed X-amount on a half-hour show, and a different amount on an hour-long show.  Everyone in the 1979 Y&R cast had negotiated their contracts using the half-hour Screen Actors Guild payscale, and when the change was made to the hour-format, everyone's contract went out the window.  John Conboy may have taken credit for that (due to his ego), but I believe that's just the way contracts negotiated under union rules work in television and film.    

 

Bell said in his interview with Archives of American Television that CBS had leaned on Screen Gems to expand Y&R to an hour, and that he fought the decision for a long time.  He basically said, "They eventually told me that the show was expanding to an hour, and it would be expanding with or without me."  That pretty much says that while he might've had creative control of the show, his ownership decision-making was sometimes trumped by Screen Gems/SONY.        

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8 minutes ago, Broderick said:

 

Believe me, I wouldn't know anything about the structuring of their contracts -- (half-hour format versus the hour-format) --- except it came to my attention when Doug Davidson was complaining on Twitter last year that Mal Young stopped utilizing him entirely after he was bumped to recurring.  There was a scene last year where Lily Winters had to give a statement to the police department about a traffic accident in which Hilary Curtis was injured.   Instead of using Doug Davidson, they used Random Policewoman #1 to take Lily's statement.  Some viewers were asking why Paul Williams wasn't used instead of Random Policewoman #1.  So I looked on the Screen Actors Guild website to see how much Random Policewoman #1 was paid for taking Lily's statement.  There was a wealth of information:  an "under-five" (person who delivers fewer than 5 lines of dialogue) is guaranteed X-amount on a half-hour show, and a different amount on an hour-long show.  A "dayplayer" (person who delivers more than 5 lines but isn't under contract) is guaranteed X-amount on a half-hour show, and a different amount on an hour-long show.  A "contract cast member" is guaranteed X-amount on a half-hour show, and a different amount on an hour-long show.  Everyone in the 1979 Y&R cast had negotiated their contracts using the half-hour Screen Actors Guild payscale, and when the change was made to the hour-format, everyone's contract went out the window.  John Conboy may have taken credit for that (due to his ego), but I believe that's just the way contracts negotiated under union rules work in television and film.    

 

Bell said in his interview with Archives of American Television that CBS had leaned on Screen Gems to expand Y&R to an hour, and that he fought the decision for a long time.  He basically said, "They eventually told me that the show was expanding to an hour, and it would be expanding with or without me."  That pretty much says that while he might've had creative control of the show, his ownership decision-making was sometimes trumped by Screen Gems/SONY.        

Fair enough, yeah I have no idea about contracts, but what you say makes sense.

 

Yeah I guess Bell never owned the show outright, so he was still at the mercy of Screen Gems/Sony and of course CBS, but I assume once the show was getting back on top and eventually to #1 Bell was probably left alone. It must have been hard though since he loved Y&R so much. I am still amazed he and the rest involved with the show managed to turn the show around, with all the discussion about 80-81/early 82 it seems the show could have easily never recovered. Judging by the ratings it didn't start pushing its way back into the top 4 until the summer of 1982. That's a long period to be unstable, especially with the way daytime was back then. Actually seeing the ratings for 80 and 81 I am surprised the show was still getting into the top 5 on a regular basis.

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Fascinating reading.

I'm surprised that Y&R still was using the outdated taping method that they had used for the 30 min show.

By that stage several other shows had gone to an hour and surely they would have looked for best practice.

Wes  Kenney had been through the same thing when he returned to Days and overhauled the production to allow for shorter working days and better budgeting.

The letters from Bill Bell to Betty Corday during his Days stint show that he was frustrated at times that production didn't realize his vision or intent with particular scenes so the same thing must have occurred on Y&R.

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On Instagram, @adamtghani has posted Katherine and Jill's first scenes, if you're interested. Lots of other soap content.

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