As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Khan]

It amazes me to know 20 million people watched Steve and Betsy's wedding.  Were they really that popular?

[P.J.]

 

 

No, he said he was dating another actress on the show. I'm guessing it didn't end so well, as he didn't name her.

 

It's nice to see stories like that----I either didn't know or had forgotten that "he and Betsy wrote the song" on the show.  I don't quite think he takes enough credit for the song itself---it's a beautiful ballad all on it's own. Yeah, I'm sure the timing of it made it a little bigger or a little more memorable, but it would've been a hit either way.

 

And yes, Steve and Betsy were that popular. I don't think that under similar circumstances, they would have ever been as iconic as Luke and Laura. But they are arguably, ATWT's most iconic couple.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Oh, whoo, when you read late at night...I thought Marisa seemed a little young for him, LOL. Thanks for sorting that one out.  I probably should've revisited the article in the clear light of day.

 

This will probably be shouted down and I accept it's an unpopular sentiment/opinion but I think that the 1980s ushered in an era of pro-West Coast soaps bias. 

[P.J.]

 

 

Specifically, in the case of Steve and Betsy, not being "as iconic" as Luke and Laura is because of the short time they were together. Ryan left the role shortly after Steve and Betsy got married (and Jimmy wasn't quite accurate---yes, Betsy got amnesia, but she was also burned, requiring surgery, grew about five inches and emerged as Lindsay Frost) and then Runyeon left in '85, '86. They just weren't together as long. They didn't come back either.

 

Now...if someone wanted to debate Reva & Josh vs Luke & Laura.... and I would totally agree, after with Luke&Laura and Y&R's emergence, there was a west coast bias, at least in the press. I always considered the west coast soaps more the "hair modelish" vs the real actors of the east coast. But I'm a CBS raised person, and my heart lies with the P&G soaps, for better or worse.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I was really young back then but from what I can remember, yes they were.  I know Meg Ryan gets a ton of derision these days but throughout the 80s and 90s, she was regarded as the queen of the romcom and part of that goodwill she got on the silver screen was due to the popularity she amassed while on ATWT.  Frank Runyeon is a classically trained musician who sometimes got to show his piano skills on the show, and we all know how far being musical will get an actor with soap fans (see: Michael Damian and Rick Springfield).  So yeah, I'd say they were highly popular. 

Also, for a minute P&G and CBS actually promoted their soap stars and you could see Meg Ryan and Frank Runyeon making appearances on The Price Is Right and in the 1980s, few daytime shows were as big as TPIR. 

 

Even while they were in it, without the benefit of hindsight there was a West Coast bias.

 

Also, Luke and Laura's wedding had the benefit of timing, after coming on the heels of the enormous Royal wedding between Prince Charles and Princess Diana that had occurred months earlier.  Now I know that the official story was that Monty had planned to postpone it and somehow Liz Taylor offered to appear on the show if they pushed up the wedding but I'm sorry, that sounds like pure PR spin to make it seem as if no one was exploiting the aftermath of wedding fever left behind by the Royal wedding. I just don't buy the explanation. I think the GH folks were very clever with their timing on that.

 

The West Coast soaps were entertaining, don't get me wrong and there were years, decades of great entertainment but those shows were a product of their Hollywood environment where glamour and gloss was much more important than it was for the grittier, often earthier East Coast soaps.  But what went along with that is the fact is the benefit of the Hollywood PR machine at their disposal. 

 

It's very telling that all of the soaps remaining on TV are Burbank and Hollywood adjacent. Those soaps were/are no better than their now cancelled East Coast counterparts but they had the benefit of better PR and more Hollywood razzle-dazzle.  

I mean when you can turn a rapist into a romantic leading man for years... that's some PR spin, don't you think?

Edited August 4, 2019 by DramatistDreamer

[Soaplovers]

I figured betsy and Steve benefited from not making up.and breaking up all the time...like what happened to Josh/Reva and Luke/Laura.  They broke up and never got back together...so they were more a tragic super couple..imho

[Scrapple]

How stupid was ATWT to end Steve/Betsy the way they did? The biggest couple on the show since Penny/Jeff and they just let them peter out by sending Steve to Greece and (eventually) prison, and putting nuBetsy with Josh? What a huge disappointment. Of course, the problem was that Runyeon and Frost had ZERO chemistry. They should have just let Steve and Betsy ride off into the sunset after the big wedding.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

In retrospect, it would've been for the best to let Steve and Betsy leave together (as Marland originally did with Craig and Sierra before Craig had that comeback in the mid 90s only to reconcile with Sierra again) but Frank Runyeon had chemistry with other actresses who had been on the show like Kim Johnston Ulrich, so from their P.O.V. they should've been able to make it work with another actress-- and honestly, when you look at Frost when she first entered the scene, except for the hair, she looked more like a clone of Johnston Ulrich's Diana McColl than she did of Meg Ryan's Betsy.  ATM that they recast with Lindsey Frost, it was unlikely that TPTB had any reason to believe that they would eventually get completely flummoxed by the pairing of Runyeon and Frost.

 

That Betsy/Rod pairing was a disaster, there's no "ifs ands or buts" about that one. 

 

Honestly, if they could've sent them off for a few months after Ryan's departure and maybe had Steve (Runyeon) pop up in Oakdale (a la Penny Hughes) from time to time for business and then brought back Ulrich in the role as Betsy, I doubt that many fans would've quibbled about that.  I know that Runyeon did other soaps for years until the early 00s, so they could've had Steve and Betsy around a lot longer than they did. 

 

But hindsight is 20/20, I guess.

Edited August 5, 2019 by DramatistDreamer

[Paul Raven]

I believe that Marland was no fan of Steve/Runyeon. Also remember reading that Runyeon wanted  a 1 year contract extension and P&G were cutting back on short term contracts.

 

Some tidbits from earlier years....

Apparently Mrs Kopecki, the woman that Grandpa Hughes married in 1975 was around at least 10 years earlier. I don;t think she was ever seen onscreen, just mentioned.

I had always assumed that she was first talked about only months before the wedding as away of reducing screen time for Grandpa/Santos Ortega, who was not up to appearing due to ill health.

 

Looking over synopses, 1967 seems to be a tough year in Oakdale, Both Doug Cassen and his son Neil Wade died, leaving Claire and Penny widows for the second time.

Also Sara Fuller, Bill Holmes and Joan Rogers died in that year.

Irna must have been in a morbid mood...

[Mitch]

Yea, Runyon had gotten a big ego (which he even admits) and thought he was the "star" of the show (I think during Bunim's time she told an extra that he couldnt actually touch Runyeon during a fight as he was "the star" of the show...) and with that ego and a producer pushing it I can see where they thought magic could strike again with another actress, but it didn't . Runyeon was fine in a ensemble as Steve but he thought he was Fulton/Lucci/Zimmer roled into one overacting man. They underestimated what Ryan brought to the role though her fidgety tics got on my nerves.

 

 

[Soaplovers]

Was there anyone Frost's Betsy had chemistry with?

[DRW50]

 

Scott Bryce. 

 

I didn't think she was that bad with William Fichtner either. 

[Soapsuds]

And apparently Rick Giolito.

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[Scrapple]

It must have galled Runyeon to see his role become the one of troublemaker, while former villain Bryce was heading for leading man.  After all , for two solid years, ATWT literally centered around only 2 stories, Betsy/Steve and the Stenbeck heir tale. Suddenly Frank went from "star" to ensemble player.

[DRW50]

I never really saw this incredible Frank and Meg chemistry myself. I just remember a lot of him shouting and her looking confused and frightened by everything.