As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

 

Yeah the Josh and Meg happy ending stuff, complete with a happy closing credits montage, is something I can't really imagine was originally in the plan until things took off in those last months. I agree Iva shouldn't have been involved at all. Of course some fans would have said she was miserable Iva ruining her sister's wedding (SOD in those years loved to belittle how depressed Iva was), but who could blame her?

 

The Seth thing was to help split her from Josh, as his jealousy over their growing friendship helped lead him into an affair with Meg. And then Seth and Betsy left the show together. It didn't last long, as Seth returned within a year or two.

 

(to be honest I always felt a "special connection" with Seth that I didn't realize until years later meant I thought he was gay...and I still kind of think that...) 

 

This is probably one of the more bracingly honest parts of the Josh and Betsy relationship - it's a pretty raw scene that doesn't feel very Marland...which makes sense, as I think it was strike material.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-XT__Xjl0

Edited February 27, 2017 by DRW50

[Soapsuds]

Hmmm...I never found any of Emma's sons to be gay. Seth would have been the least I would suspect. He had lousy taste in women maybe that's why you thought that. I mean Sabrina? She was boring as hell...LOL

Edited February 27, 2017 by Soapsuds

[Mitch]

Yes, first Tad was younger and hotter.. I could see Iva and Betsy falling for him. Larry Pine was like..somone's gross dad..kinda skeevy. Now if they were trying to go for Iva having daddy issues...(which I could believe...)

 

Yes, I always thought Seth was gay..especially since he was Marland's stand him for himself. The other gay one was Caleb.. God. watching Betsy and Seth was like watching paint dry, but not as bad as Seth and that "vixen" Frannie with a wig and glasses, I mean Sabrina.  I qut watching ATWT and went to GL as ALL of Marland's good people..outside of the vets..were as dull as hell.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Mitch

[DRW50]

 

When did you start back?

[Soaplovers]

Marland was good with plot and community...but a lot of his characters were dull.  His ATWT was decent, but kind of boring.

[P.J.]

I never thought Marland's show was boring. Yes, looking back I criticize, but as it happened, ATWT kept me glued to the set.

[Soapsuds]

Hmmm...I never saw the gay thing with Seth but Caleb yes....but the second Caleb. The first Caleb no.

 

And yup I will say again too....Sabrina and Seth were boring to hell and back. I don't know what Marland was thinking with that pairing. I hated the couple and didn't like seeing them on.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Soapsuds

[Sapounopera]

I also saw Seth as the son gay viewers could identify with when I was watching as a kid. His leading lady was Emma.

 

[Mitch]

Seth would have been the perfect guy to have come out and be gay...his story was perfect..the nice responsible big brother who had to take care of his family and they came first so he never had "time" to date. Deep down he is struggling but his focus is on his family and when he thinks about it he dismisses it..he has to be the role model and stable person, he figures he is a  good farm boy not a wild promiscuous partier so of course he could NOT be gay. That would have finally made him interesting and gave him a purpose..

 

I always kept an eye on things in Oakdale...I just didnt watch it daily like I did from like 1980 on to when Marland really got morose and his characters boring. What...91...maybe? At that time GL finally grounded itself from being the Reva Show and it had family, business, mysteries, and characters who had fun and good characters who actually were interesting and were allowed to be bitchy and snarky about other good characters. Everyone in Oakdale was sooooooo, serious and earnest all the time.  I actually started watching full time with..dont hate me..Sheffer, but after that first year it started to stink.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Mitch

[Soapsuds]

It would have been interesting to see Seth as a gay character. I wonder if Marland had any ideas of doing that. He did come up with Hank but he already had a bf/lover. Have Iva tell Seth that Hank was gay and then Seth coming out to Iva.

[DramatistDreamer]

It's kind of easy for us to judge a 1980s version of a show by today's standards though. Perhaps had Marland lived on, by the late 90s/early 00s maybe we may have seen a Seth coming out story but I have a feeling that Marland was working within the restraints that had been in place for him in daytime TV on CBS.

 

To me, although CBS had some of the best written daytime dramas, CBS always struck me as quite conservative and I am guessing that quite a few of their viewers were conservative as well. I wasn't watching the last year or so of the show but I went back to watch the last episode online several months later and was struck by some of the negative comments practically blaming Luke and Noah's relationship for driving some viewers away and it reminded me of how conservative some daytime viewers truly are.

[DRW50]

 

I don't actually think Seth was supposed to be gay. I think it's just that Marland put a lot of himself in the character, and this, along with Steve Bassett's performance (which again I don't think he intended to be gay) gave me that impression.

 

Marland was very good at writing as far as he could for an audience that was, as you say, quite conservative. No other P&G soap ever had a black woman as a lead heroine, and not just a lead heroine, but a strong, independent heroine. It just wouldn't have happened. The stories he told were at times very controversial on paper but onscreen they made sense and managed to work. A lead heroine being dragged into a van and raped by an HIV-positive man? And there were smaller moments that genuinely surprised me, like when David Stewart - a beloved longtime patriarch - died, and Marland used a portion of his funeral to have Hank Elliot send a letter that didn't just praise David for his AIDS research, but also pointedly mentioned just how many people did not give a damn about AIDS or gay men dying of AIDS for many years. I was shocked. 

[DramatistDreamer]

Steve Bassett may have very well rocked that twist and I think it could've been interesting, since Seth was often a blend of toughness and sensitivity but network executives seemed so youth obsessed, it might have been a hard sell to pitch the coming out of a middle aged man. Quite honestly, I think that most likely, the character had to be a legacy character and had to be a relatively young one for CBS to invest.

 

And similar to your thoughts @DRW50, I think that Marland certainly based many aspects of Seth's story off his personal biography but he probably also enjoy writing someone similar but not exactly identical to his own personality. For instance, Marland never gave the impression that he had such a bad temper or hulk-like physical strength that he could kill someone with his bare hands and barely recognize that he was doing it. I remember Seth confiding in Frannie about his temper and how he almost killed the drunk driver that hit and killed his friend Lois, and it was seemingly with his bare hands as he apparently had his hands around the man's neck.

Edited March 2, 2017 by DramatistDreamer

[NothinButAttitude]

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[Paul Raven]

Boy, the size and detail of those sets!