As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Vee]

Whoa! I don't remember that. Maybe I haven't seen it yet. There was one a couple eps ago where Sierra has visions of people 'popping in' constantly to her bedroom left and right as she imagines Craig leaving her for the crippled Iva while she's now pregnant, with flashes every time someone appeared a la Q on Star Trek and it was just so silly.

I think the fact that so many of the Snyders were so earnest (most of whom I like so far) makes Meg fresh air. Though the early Holden who is at times as calculating and outright feral as she can be is also very interesting to me. And I do like Tonio as just a totally vile character.

[DRW50]

I'm probably making it seem more scandalous than it was - I believe it's Lucinda, Craig and Tonio in a sauna setting or somewhere, taunting Sierra (we don't see her, she's just the camera), but it's heavily implied they are both getting together with Lucinda (I think they are kissing on her arms or neck at some point but maybe I am making half this up).

Early Holden was very interesting, I agree. Marland tries to go back to that here and there, mainly through his wanting to be a corporate shark. I wish they'd fully committed.

I think Tonio works well for what he is in his marriages to Sierra and Meg. And Barbara and Emily, etc. were so lacking in self-worth, so I'm not surprised they got involved with him. It's just when you spend as much time as Marland did on, essentially, how many women he was dicking down, you need an actor with more charisma than the guy who played Tonio.

[Vee]

What little I've seen of corporate Holden (from later on, maybe the amnesia era) is very interesting. It seems like a very different performance, as opposed to much later where Jon Hensley seemed like a nonentity for me for much of the 2000s.

[MarlandFan]

Marx fulfilled his original 3 year contract and then left for L.A.  Marland did, in fact, leave the role of Tom open as long as he could (6 months) in the hopes that Marx would return.  Bryce also left when his contract expired but (as we saw) he basically had an open-door to return whenever he wanted.

I LOVED Jennifer Ashe as Meg.  Spunky, smart, wily, and forever-yearning. I hated how her marriage to Tonio made her a victim, but it did help to mature her.  Meg was the sharpest of the Snyders and I was always happy to see her drop in for a short term visit post-1988. 

And Marland definitely rewrote Iva's adoption to allow a Lily/Holden love story.  The revelation scene between Iva and Emma in the August 4, 1986 episode is very long (by soap standards) and covers a lot of exposition for a single scene. While beautiful and beautifully acted, the scene definitely feels like it was surgically added at the last minute.

 

 

Edited February 18 by MarlandFan

[Vee]

As part of the press rollout for Beyond the Gates, Tamara Tunie gives a lecture and talks ATWT around 12:50. She discusses the FBI being called in over hate speech and death threats. She praises the writing as 'brilliant' but also critiques the issues with diversity, etc later on around 1:02:30.

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[DRW50]

Thanks. Any time you hear of an interracial relationship on a soap you hear about death threats. You hear so much hostility now about interracial relationships and how they are establishment and selling out and so on that it can be easy to overlook just what a risk the soaps were taking, especially one with as conservative an audience as ATWT. 

The show didn't do right by Jessica in the end, but there were a few years where you saw all the possibilities. I'm glad Tamara is able to speak out about her experiences and the pressures she was under.

Edited February 20 by DRW50

[DRW50]

"As the World Turns" Promo (1990)

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[Reverend Ruthledge]

I liked how Duncan and Jessica's relationship caused Lisa to deal with long-held prejudices but I never bought that the character who would have the problem would be Lisa. Lisa was always a progressive free-spirit. I would have bought that storyline if it had been Nancy with the problem since she was always conservative and could be judgmental. Perhaps it was because Nancy wasn't really in the Duncan and Jessica orbit or because Marland had so defanged Nancy by this time. I also didn't buy Nancy being so accepting of Hank Elliot being gay. Anyway, I think it was a good story idea but I just feel like Lisa got shoehorned into the story. I honestly don't think Lisa would have cared at all that Duncan and Jessica were mixed race. I think they just put her in that place to give her something to do and because she fit the age of the generation that is more likely to have a problem with it. I think that storyline should have gone to Nancy. 

[MarlandFan]

Interesting idea about Nancy.  I think Marland gave the story to Lisa because of her southern roots? Also, the latent prejudice made for better drama because Lisa was closer to Duncan and Jessica; the conflict felt more intense.  Overall, though, the prejudice seemed odd: Lisa didn't mind them being in a relationship (and I don't think she minded them getting married) but she had a problem with a mixed-race child being born from the union.

[Reverend Ruthledge]

Lisa was from Rockford, Illinois. Not far from the fictional Oakdale. She wasn't Southern. Yeah, I think Lisa got the story because she was in Duncan and Jessica's orbit. Nancy wasn't. And like I say, Nancy had morphed into the sweet little grandma by this time. 

[Mona Kane Croft]

I think in addition to all that's been said -- Lisa had committed so many transgressions, and had always been forgiven by the audience. So Marland knew the fans would forgive Lisa for a short lapse into temporary racism. Would the fans have forgiven Nancy Hughes in the same way??  Additionally, Lisa's disapproval was more impactful -- as she was (as others have suggested) in the orbit of Duncan and Jessica. Had Nancy been the person to disapprove, it's likely Duncan and Jessica would never have even heard about her disapproval. So Nancy's disapproval would have been more or less meaningless.   

[DRW50]

There are some people who only start to care if a child is in the picture, so that part was realistic. 

I know Lisa wasn't from the South, but I think Eileen often played her with a certain Southern flair, Scarlett O'Hara tones at times, which must have had some impact.

I agree with @Reverend Ruthledge that Nancy being against the relationship would have made sense, but beyond her volunteering at the Earl Mitchell Center she had little involvement in their lives. 

Her being uneasy about Hank being close to Andy would have made a lot of sense, but Marland didn't ever seem to want to write her in a negative or judgmental manner, other than moments here and there like how put off she was about Emily/Paul.

[Khan]

I agree that it would have made more sense for Nancy to be opposed to Duncan and Jessica's relationship, but as another poster mentioned upthread, Lisa was more involved with the two - or at least with Duncan - than many others were (which says a lot about how Duncan was integrated with the rest of the ATWT cast, lol).

[BetterForgotten]

I posted this in the BTG thread, but Tamara Tunie stopped by the NYC owned and operated affiliate (WCBS) to promote BTG. Anyway, that affiliate is headquartered out of the CBS Broadcast Center where ATWT was produced out of for years (before moving to the old AW studio in Brooklyn in Jan 2000 where it stayed for the remainder of its run, that studio no longer exists). Anyway, she makes sure to note that the CBS Broadcast Center is her old stomping grounds, and she acknowledges a picture of Helen Wagner as Nancy Hughes on the wall.

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Edited February 22 by BetterForgotten

[Mitch64]

I think that Marland said in an interview that Lisa made sense as he wanted to point out that the most unlikeliest of people can have racist feelings (or as we would put it today, racial bias) and he wanted to show that. It would have been more interesting if Nancy had felt that way, and it would have mattered as she was the "matriarch" of Oakdale...but as someone upthread wrote..they had defanged her so much she had no pep left and had morphed into an untouchable icon. I am sure Wagner would love to play it as she had commented many times on Nancy's controlling ways. 

I like the interview above and how Tunie mentions her past and the Helen Wagner picture.  The set up for the show looks interesting and traditional, a matriarch with an iron fist watching out for her family (part Nancy Hughes, part Alexandra Spaulding) and two different daughters..though they do make the "wild" daughter seem too "Real Housewives" cartoony, but we shall see. 

Edited February 22 by Mitch64