As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

Why not present the person with the award while they are still alive, lucid and well enough to take in the love and appreciation? Kimberly Sullivan was likely the last character that Irna Phillips ever created? How can any daytime television programmer with an active brain cell fail to acknowledge this?
ATWT was cancelled in 2010, Ms. Hays appeared on the Locher Room during when, 2020? The Emmy people had a full decade in which to present her with an award. To me, that says that the folks who program the Daytime Emmy show want to acknowledge the soaps as little as they could possibly get away with, by only focusing on the ones still on air, with the lion share of the awards show dedicated to “service programming”. 2010-2012 were years that soaps were seemingly going out of fashion and in the following years, once the tributes were over, the Daytime Emmys seemed ready to “turn the page” and “Turn Off The Light” and shine the spotlight on other types of shows, like those service shows. With a brand new daytime soap, perhaps this attitude will change but you can’t recapture what has been lost once human beings pass away. 

[VelekaCarruthers]

Recently been reviewing April 93 through Dec 95 and I'm impressed how Caso tried to keep Marland's writing team together for so long after his deal (18months approx).  At first, he brought back (in June 93) John Kuntz who had been with the show for six years (departed six months prior) and added Mary Ryan (who would last 2 years as outline writer) then return for 2 years in 2001. Garin Wolf returned December 1993.  Then 1994 started a big influx and exodus of writers, just as happened on GL.  In Jan 94, Richard Culliton came in as an outline writer followed by Millie Taggart who wrote a handful of scripts in early spring of that year before she was pulled over to GL to write by committee when Curlee quit.  Then, this surprised me.  Lemay returned as story consultant from May to July of 94. This is when they also added Scott Hammer as dialog writer and Christina Covino (outlines and scripts) who had been a writer and production assistant on ABC nighttime show, The Commish.  By August 94, vet writer Nancy Ford was gone (but returned in April 1995 as outline writer, lasting 9 months) as was editor, Koechl.  End of August Sally Sussman was added as an outline writer (she lasted less than 4 months) and Susan Kirshenbaum as a script writer. By late November, Backus was out, Wolf/Culliton/Packer were head writers.  Lorin Wertheimer (assistant to writers) was added as script writer in spring 95 (fired by Valente in May 1996). Caso was replaced by hack John Valente by end of June 95 (he lasted 18 god awful months). (Tom Wiggin wrote a few scripts that summer as well). By end of August, Valente had started to disassemble the writing team. First to go was co-head Wolfe (after an 18month return post Marland death), leaving Packer and Culliton as co heads. Addie Walsh was added as outline writer and longtime writer, Meri Post was fired (having worked on the show since 1985 with a small break or two during that ten year period. By mid December, Packer had been fired, leaving Culliton as sole head writer (through Jan 96). Hammer, Ford and Mary Ryan were also out. Demorest was added (after a 1 year sabbatical after ten on GL) as was Iacubuzio, both as outline writers. Franz was also out after ten years as script writer, replaced by Louise Shaffer.  Then, we enter 1996........I have to say P&G/CBS were big into throwing the kitchen sink at the writers' rooms of both ATWT which lost Marland in spring 93 and GL which lost Curlee spring 1994. Neither show easily recovered, if ever. 

Edited May 11, 2024 by VelekaCarruthers

[kalbir]

By June 1994 both shows were not in a good place creatively and thus effectively over in the aftermath of OJ. I wouldn't say both shows limped along in their final 15 years though.

[DRW50]

 

There were highlights in those final years, but ATWT lost its identity after 1995 and never found it again (GL had lost its identity in the early '80s). 1994 is bad and I don't really connect a ton with 1993 either but I do appreciate more now that those were still moments when the show remembered what it was and there was a chance of still being that show. One of the reasons I felt so betrayed by FMB is because she talked a good talk and I genuinely believed the show could improve again. Then Alyson Rice Taylor's firing in favor of an ABC pal, plus just how awful the material of that period was, reminded me you could never go home.

I do wonder what might have been if Lemay had had more involvement. Probably nothing much...I mostly just remember the interview where he complained (this was after he'd moved on to consulting at AW again) that when he was at ATWT too many characters had their own jets.

[vetsoapfan]

I, too, half-hoped that FMB could help turn the show around, but as we've all seen many times before, just because a writer or producer excels at one soap does not guarantee his/her success at another one.

I thought Lynne Lathan was great at writing Homefront on primetime TV, but her daytime soap stints were less-than-memorable IMHO. Ann Marcus was a good fit on Mary Hartman and made the ratings increase quite a bit at SFT, but her work on DAYS was a mess.

John Conboy's success at Y&R was never really duplicated (to the same degree) anywhere else.

I would have preferred to see him get a shot at headwriting ATWT or TGL, over many of the inferior writers who ended up being hired by P&G in those soaps' declining years. HL's character-driven style would have been similar to Irna Phillip's original handling of ATWT.

Even if the ratings never increased enough to save them, it still would have been nice to see the remaining P&G soaps die a graceful death with quality writing and producing...instead of what they got handed by the likes of Jean Passanante, Chris Goutman and Ellen Wheeler & the Peapack experiment.

[DRW50]

I definitely think he would have made the show more compelling than what we got - I just don't think he would have been given much of a chance. 

[vetsoapfan]

ITA. By that time, the "suits" were trigger-happy and intent on micro-managing down to the nth degree. I imagine that even if Lemay had the patience to tolerate the environment, he'd be restricted from doing what he could do best.

[DramatistDreamer]

Thanks @DRW50I haven’t forgotten about this, hopefully I can watch this before the weekend is over.

[DRW50]

They also put up the episode after this one.

Watching them both, it looks like they have been up before, but I still enjoyed seeing them again, especially all the buildup to "The Truth About Jennifer." Immersing in Marland's world again also reminds me of how much I took for granted the feeling of community and continuity that would be ripped away (yes, the variations on "where is Holden/I hope he's back soon" can be a bit repetitive at times, but the actors tend to make it seem fresh).

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, as I have said ad nauseum, in 1996 CBS gave GL the outline for the new production model but what they dictated for ATWT was in a way worse. It was a new narrative style. In her book Lynn Liccardo calls it pod storytelling, which is a good enough term for it for me. The opposite of the tapestry where different stories are threads being woven together painting one big unified picture also pod stories make something like an umbrella storyline a literal impossibility. Even the best writers would keep banging into this wall making them tell stories this different way. 

[Contessa Donatella]

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[NothinButAttitude]

[adrnyc]

 

Ah, Martha Byrne giving two snaps in a circle to all the aughts naysayers. Good for her!

[Contessa Donatella]

And in the picture of them winning the Emmy she's even in frame with Chris Goutman!!! 

[DramatistDreamer]

We probably discussed this song a few years ago, either in this thread or in a separate thread concerning popular music used on soaps but this song has an interesting history.
James Dunne and Pamela Phillips-Oland wrote it and the original version was first performed by Dunne and Tonya Pinkins for the soap, then performed on the show and recorded by Jermaine Jackson and Whitney Houston. Clive Davis wanted the song included on Whitney’s debut album (which was the 1st album I ever bought and it’s still in my record collection). Anne Murray and a second cousin to Kenny Loggins recorded a country version of the song (apparently released even before Whitney and Jermaine’s version hit the charts) which went to #1.

Over the last few years when a soap opera themed podcast has interviewed Tonya, especially when they ask about her time on ATWT, I wished that someone would ask her in depth about having been the first singer to perform the song, in a duet with one of the actual songwriters but the questions never seem to go beyond the superficial and the need to pour some “tea”. It would be interesting to hear from the songwriters on how their song ended up debuting on ATWT.