But that's not a gay or black character on a soap being devalued, that's the show and their ignorant fans devaluing THEM and the contributions THEY could make to the canvas.

Maybe there's a different way you could have worded this, but I find a big problem with someone saying that a "gay/bi/whatever" person has "less-value" because they've come out as such or happens to have a gay experience. If the story is there and so is the chemistry, then why not go for it?

Yeah, and AS I WAS SAYING in the earlier post, plenty of males and females have chemistry with each other...doesn't mean they should be paired for the sake of being paired. Including your precious namesake.

Days sucks so bad right now that it's not as if Chad and Will are 100% defined. Hell, if a man in real life decides that they like men early on in their life or later in life does that devalue them as a person?

I don't think you realize just how completely ignorant and out of touch that sounded. I'm far from being a champion for the gay mafia, but to say that making two ill-defined male characters who clearly have chemistry and an interesting backstory gay or bi devalues them is the most blatant passive-aggressive homophobia I've seen on this board in quite a bit.

Again, typical eye-rolling, embarrassing homophobia.

Why would Will coming out as gay or bi separate him and put him in a different character pool? You're acting as if the only stories that can ever be told on a TV show have to be ridiculous love triangles, paternity scandals, etc. Why can't Will be in a triangle where the endgame is Chad or being alone and driven by revenge? Alone Will can scheme after feeling jilted(like his mother felt all throughout the 90's with Austin/Carrie and later Franco) and make Chad's life a living hell as well as his mother and EJ's lives.

It's interesting that some people's shock value reply to making a character gay is, "Oh man, f*ggots and d*kes are gonna be everywhere! EEEEEEEK! Don't let them ruin our DAYS!" Well, NewsFlash, the show sucks with or without exploring the chemistry these two actors share. And as I said before, if this were a guy and a girl, you'd be chanting for the both of them to be together.

Bottom line is that going in for the "Chill" wouldn't be that jarring because it's not like either one of these guys has been in a viable supercouple pairing.

And as far as the whole, "They're straight, they're straight. They've had girlfriends. There's no way they could ever be gay!," HA, I guess because he says it that means that it's gospel? It's non-progressive attitudes like the ones mentioned in this thread and the ones had by other fans and the executives that share such ridiculous views that have caused gay characters(and other minorities) to be devalued. Revealing that a character has come out or exploring chemistry between two people of the same sex does not "devalue" them. Close-minded people do.

"Writing 101"(how cliché BTW) teaches you to explore every single facet and area of a character's life. If it's plausible that Chad and Will could be gay, have a gay experience, or even have a deep connection that isn't physical or sexual but is an attraction that goes beyond friendship, why not explore that? "Writing 101" has taught me that if the elements of the story are there, if the chemistry between the actors is there, and if it's plausible and realistic enough, then go for it. Based on my own experiences and what I know, I say it's quite plausible that "Chill" would happen.

The only thing I read from that little "example" you scripted Professor Jane is the typical asinine bullsh!t DAYS has been churning out for years now. And that is not "Writing 101." That's a class called "How to write the typical asinine nonsense with the same asinine straight characters and using those asinine examples as to why two teenaged boys would never take it to the next level because, let's face it, no two teenaged boys have ever done that before because if they say they're straight then they totally, totally are."

*applause*

Could not have said it better myself.

Just imagine how more heated this debate would get if TPTB were actually considering "Chill".... ;-)

They really should go there.

And they dont need to make them gay.

Why cant they just be getting closer as friends, get drunk one night, hookup, and then deal with the fall out and examine their feelings for eachother.

I think it devalues them because it isolates them into a different character pool forever. Gay Will cannot just simply have an affair with his brother fiance because that brother would have to be gay as well. And he cannot get involved with some established character with history on the show either, because again, that character would have to be a gay as well and in that case the show would soon have to be turn into "Gays of Our Lives". From writers/producers standpoint it´s just extremely unpracticall and limiting.

Right, because there is no such thing as being bisexual.

or even a drunken one night stand with a member of the same sex.

Why cant they just be getting closer as friends, get drunk one night, hookup, and then deal with the fall out and examine their feelings for eachother.

Because, dammit, their love is too strong to be denied, lol!

Because, dammit, their love is too strong to be denied, lol!

thats fine, lol. clam down!

No, id love it if Chad was over it and Will was "in love" and pulled a sami with chad as his austin.

How is it exploring their sexuality when there's been no hint of it, at least with Chad?

well, this was explored and the show already has all the groundwork in place. Mia could turn anyone off women. Hugh Hefner would turn gay rather than listen to her drone on about something not the least bit interesting.

Just imagine how more heated this debate would get if TPTB were actually considering "Chill".... ;-)

No, thank you! Those Luke/Reid/Noah are more than enough!

Though, this thread is a welcome departure from the funèbre mood that pervades the threads in recent weeks (Oh! The memories...; Wow, the eighties...; Oh, if... etc.).

I don't think you realize just how completely ignorant and out of touch that sounded. I'm far from being a champion for the gay mafia, but to say that making two ill-defined male characters who clearly have chemistry and an interesting backstory gay or bi devalues them is the most blatant passive-aggressive homophobia I've seen on this board in quite a bit.

Again, typical eye-rolling, embarrassing homophobia.

Why would Will coming out as gay or bi separate him and put him in a different character pool? You're acting as if the only stories that can ever be told on a TV show have to be ridiculous love triangles, paternity scandals, etc. Why can't Will be in a triangle where the endgame is Chad or being alone and driven by revenge? Alone Will can scheme after feeling jilted(like his mother felt all throughout the 90's with Austin/Carrie and later Franco) and make Chad's life a living hell as well as his mother and EJ's lives.

It's interesting that some people's shock value reply to making a character gay is, "Oh man, f*ggots and d*kes are gonna be everywhere! EEEEEEEK! Don't let them ruin our DAYS!" Well, NewsFlash, the show sucks with or without exploring the chemistry these two actors share. And as I said before, if this were a guy and a girl, you'd be chanting for the both of them to be together.

Bottom line is that going in for the "Chill" wouldn't be that jarring because it's not like either one of these guys has been in a viable supercouple pairing.

And as far as the whole, "They're straight, they're straight. They've had girlfriends. There's no way they could ever be gay!," HA, I guess because he says it that means that it's gospel? It's non-progressive attitudes like the ones mentioned in this thread and the ones had by other fans and the executives that share such ridiculous views that have caused gay characters(and other minorities) to be devalued. Revealing that a character has come out or exploring chemistry between two people of the same sex does not "devalue" them. Close-minded people do.

I don´t see anything homophobic at stating the fact that gay character can only be in relationships with other gays which means the character pool they can choose from is severely limited. And yes, the relationship troubles, geometrics and secrets are usually the center of most soap stories and they certainly are on DAYS. Or I´m the only one who remembers poor Matt Fielding on original Melrose Place? Gay characters (well, any characters) can certainly have long and rich life outside its relationships on soaps, unfortunatelly majority of viewers could care less about it, so characters without interesting social/sex life are spending their life on BB and forever relagated to be just a filler and supporting characters for those lying bitches, deceiving husbands and sexy whores who go from bed to bed.

"Writing 101"(how cliché BTW) teaches you to explore every single facet and area of a character's life. If it's plausible that Chad and Will could be gay, have a gay experience, or even have a deep connection that isn't physical or sexual but is an attraction that goes beyond friendship, why not explore that? "Writing 101" has taught me that if the elements of the story are there, if the chemistry between the actors is there, and if it's plausible and realistic enough, then go for it. Based on my own experiences and what I know, I say it's quite plausible that "Chill" would happen.

The only thing I read from that little "example" you scripted Professor Jane is the typical asinine bullsh!t DAYS has been churning out for years now. And that is not "Writing 101." That's a class called "How to write the typical asinine nonsense with the same asinine straight characters and using those asinine examples as to why two teenaged boys would never take it to the next level because, let's face it, no two teenaged boys have ever done that before because if they say they're straight then they totally, totally are."

You are right, that "Writing 101" teaches you to explore every single facet and area of a character's life, but it also says it shouldn´t be just for the shock effect and you should very carefully think about what it does to the character´s future. And we are not speaking about movie, where you can imagine the most sad/beautifull story ever, everybody cries at the end and goes home. I´m not arguing that Will and/or Chad coming out couldn´t be an interesting story, but I have huge doubts the show would know what to do with them after the initial period is over. I like the characters, I´m happy the DAYS teen scene is finally getting some firm shape, and I don´t want to see them "sacrificed" just because bunch of vocal gay online fans wants to see them get it on.

I don´t see anything homophobic at stating the fact that gay character can only be in relationships with other gays which means the character pool they can choose from is severely limited. And yes, the relationship troubles, geometrics and secrets are usually the center of most soap stories and they certainly are on DAYS. Or I´m the only one who remembers poor Matt Fielding on original Melrose Place? Gay characters (well, any characters) can certainly have long and rich life outside its relationships on soaps, unfortunatelly majority of viewers could care less about it, so characters without interesting social/sex life are spending their life on BB and forever relagated to be just a filler and supporting characters for those lying bitches, deceiving husbands and sexy whores who go from bed to bed.

I can't believe you're mentioning Matt Fielding from a show that premiered 18 YEARS ago! Are you saying we haven't progressed since Melrose Place? What about the complicated gay characters & stories on Brothers & Sisters, Desperate Housewives, Queer as Folk, As The World Turns, and Guiding Light? Or do those shows not count because they fail to prove your point? Hell, they don't even have to make Chad full on gay- it would be FAR more interesting for Will to be the gay one & Chad....well...."confused." That way, as other fans have said, you could have Will scheming & lying to bed Chad, keeping him away from whatever babelicious babe they pair him with, and even pull other characters, like EJ, Sami, Rafe, and Stefano, into the story's orbit. That way, we'd get the angle we're looking for, which is just simply that they explore the chemistry between the actors, AND Will AND Chad end up with one helluva social life. You get your lying bitches & your deceiving husbands & your sexy whores, only their names are Chad and Will and they don't have to support sh!t.

You are right, that "Writing 101" teaches you to explore every single facet and area of a character's life, but it also says it shouldn´t be just for the shock effect and you should very carefully think about what it does to the character´s future. And we are not speaking about movie, where you can imagine the most sad/beautifull story ever, everybody cries at the end and goes home. I´m not arguing that Will and/or Chad coming out couldn´t be an interesting story, but I have huge doubts the show would know what to do with them after the initial period is over. I like the characters, I´m happy the DAYS teen scene is finally getting some firm shape, and I don´t want to see them "sacrificed" just because bunch of vocal gay online fans wants to see them get it on.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't say that all facets of a character should be explored & that Will/Chad would be an interesting story, but then go on to say you don't want your precious teen set sacrificed because a bunch of us "gays" want to see them "get it on."

Yeah. We're looking for "Chill" porn. Right. On an industry where same-sex kissing has caused advertising boycotts in the past couple years. Yeah all we're hoping for is some hot sex. Do you even see how insulting that is? We're bandying out story ideas, that would even use a character's parents' history, but all you see is a bunch of horny fags that want some gay sex on your screen.

Seriously, wby don't you just post what you really mean instead of posting all this politically correct bullsh!t in the middle, k? Fag/Dyke does not equal moron who can be appeased with some double talk. Which is exactly what you're doing.

But really, MATT FIELDING?

Why cant they just be getting closer as friends, get drunk one night, hookup, and then deal with the fall out and examine their feelings for eachother.

Out of all days to read this...lol. I'll keep mum though...lol

I don´t see anything homophobic at stating the fact that gay character can only be in relationships with other gays which means the character pool they can choose from is severely limited. And yes, the relationship troubles, geometrics and secrets are usually the center of most soap stories and they certainly are on DAYS.

Your assessment of what constitutes a soap story is not only, again, completely cliché, but also as you put it severely limited. Is there any reason why there is an erosion of viewers or why people have this f&cked up view of soaps? No one is willing to think outside of the box is exactly why these shows get year renewals and can barely register anything in the ratings these days.

Or I´m the only one who remembers poor Matt Fielding on original Melrose Place? Gay characters (well, any characters) can certainly have long and rich life outside its relationships on soaps, unfortunatelly majority of viewers could care less about it, so characters without interesting social/sex life are spending their life on BB and forever relagated to be just a filler and supporting characters for those lying bitches, deceiving husbands and sexy whores who go from bed to bed.

Care less about their relationships outside of being gay or both? I mean, call a spade a spade. If you're an 18-49 year old female who doesn't want to see gay relationships explored on the programs you watch, then just say it. It seems like all you're doing is tiptoeing around your own limited world view and homophobia for fear of being branded a bigot. Quit holding your cards close to the vest and come out with it so that we can properly assess your opinions without holds barred.

It's this opinion that is shared not only by you, but by executives like you who just wish to see straight, rich, white people f*cking each other with very little, if any, diversity on these shows or any sort of deviation from that storytelling. How utterly boring. But hey, at least you're one of the six who will be left watching it.

Oh and yes, we all remember Matt Fielding...the guy who got beat up by thugs on his way home/to work(TWICE), had a drug addiction, was in an abusive relationship and then killed off(off-camera, mind you) without having ever found true love. If that's a template to go by, then I say we rewrite that sucker and elevate the bar instead of using it as a reason to continue the same hackneyed plots and stories.

You are right, that "Writing 101" teaches you to explore every single facet and area of a character's life, but it also says it shouldn´t be just for the shock effect and you should very carefully think about what it does to the character´s future. And we are not speaking about movie, where you can imagine the most sad/beautifull story ever, everybody cries at the end and goes home. I´m not arguing that Will and/or Chad coming out couldn´t be an interesting story, but I have huge doubts the show would know what to do with them after the initial period is over.

Do what other straight couple do. Get jobs, run the town, get into a love triangle with another core character, straight or bi...

And no one would want "Chill" purely for shock value. No story(whether it be movie, short story, soap, anthology series, whatever) should ever be done for shock value, Professor Jane. It should come from somehwhere organic. And from what fans are saying across the board, Chad and Will's chemistry is so.

As for the "here today, gone tomorrow" nonsense, all shows should know what do with ALL of their characters down the road. Including to the straight ones you want to watch ad-nauseum.

I like the characters, I´m happy the DAYS teen scene is finally getting some firm shape, and I don´t want to see them "sacrificed" just because bunch of vocal gay online fans wants to see them get it on.

"Sacrificed." You make it sound like these fans want to take these characters and stick fangs in their necks.

Look, as a gay person and someone who is not fond of the gay mafia, I find your reasons for not wanting "Chill" are based on ludicrous reasons.

Man, I'd hate for you to have a gay son or daughter. You'll do everything you can to keep that kid's Madonna/Melissa Ethredge CDs from them, keep them from playing house/Cowboys and Indians, or keep them from watching soaps/sports. What would you say? "Sorry honey, you can't be gay. I won't let you SACRIFICE yourself to the gay community!"?

I dont get this midnset of it being forced for shock value, when really fans are the ones noticing it and wanting it.

Well Said Jack

I like the characters, I´m happy the DAYS teen scene is finally getting some firm shape, and I don´t want to see them "sacrificed" just because bunch of vocal gay online fans wants to see them get it on.

That may be one of the most presumptious things I've ever read. So, anybody who thinks a Chad/Will pairing would be a good idea must be gay AND just want to see them "get it on."? Well, I'm not gay and neither are several people that I know who also think that Chad/Will have some serious chemistry going on and that exploring that relationship would be a good way to go. Why? Because it could actually be a good story, filled with all sorts of different layers as family and friends accept, or don't accept the situation. And since chemistry is one of the keys to a good story, it's a shame to see good chemistry wasted, as neither Chad nor Will have shown a spark of anything with any of the teenyboppers they've been matched up with. I don't seen a good story as ever being a sacrifice of a character.

Lastly, to bellcurve. Outstanding posts!!