Bravo's The Real Housewives of....

[Cat]

Agree with you. This was the most open Erika has been with us ever. I believe her fear of the possibility of going to jail. I believe her when she said people have dumped her (not Mikey, surely?). She said she was unable to talk to Tom and unable to talk about Boeing and it made me wonder if she has actually, on the advice of her lawyer, turned state's evidence, cooperating with the law, in return for leniency. But then there is the $20mn he wired to her company, and the assets she has recently tried to block from being paid out... The evidence against her is a lot.

As for Rinna, this was the best she's been since S5. I remember those dresses for real, because when she started going out with Harry Hallin, it was a HUGE thing. Honestly, its a shame soaps have gone down in popular culture because Rinna is such a natural Soap Star. It also reminded me how great the early/mid 90s were-- not just for soaps (which of course they were: I was addicted to Days, GH, Y&R/B&B around this time, and also getting into ATWT -- everyone i knew watched soaps!), but just generally the 90s had great movies, stars, TV, music, fashion, gossip. And Rinna really was in the firmament for a while.

 

[Cat]

Re: LVP. Yep, they must have hated her, full-stop. A part of me held out hope that Kyle really did care for LVP deep down, but the kindness and compassion she showed Erika (compassion that seemed real IMO -- I do think Kyle has a bond with many in The Coven) -- none of this was ever on display with LVP. Kyle spent a lot of time TELLING us what a wonderful friend she was, but precious little actually showing us. The fact is, once Rinna and Erika started icing LVP out (and interesting that Erika only really turned on LVP after the famous dinner where Tom snapped at Erika -- Erika knew that LVP had witnessed the flipside of Tom Girardi), LVP became Uncool. A lot was made about her age compared to the others, and Kyle, Teddi and Dorit didn't want to be tied to her and wanted to join the cool group. So they basically cast LVP into the wilderness on some truly petty charges.

 

Re: RHONY, ITA that it's the lack of authentic, organic relationships hurting the show currently. Honestly, bring back Dorinda, Carole, heck even Aviva made for great television. Elyse copying up to Mario? Bring them both on! Keep Eboni if she and Sonja are both tight.

Luann's Instagram post is really telling. She is clearly shook about possibly losing this franchise, to the point where she'd even entertain Jill, Bethenny and Alex's return.

I was enjoying Bershan until she tried to drum up an insta-feud from literally nothing. IA it reeked of producer desperation. I sure hope that desperation doesn't lead to Bravo throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Chris B]

Honestly, was she? If we look back at what Bershan said that got the women upset, it was incredibly tame. Has no one ever been out and told their friends they were boring or acting like old ladies? I know I’ve done that before and we’ve even seen that on this franchise before.

I think she legit was trying to lighten the mood and get them to start having fun, but the reaction to her was so harsh that it kicked off. I blame Luann and Sonja more than I do Bershan. Bershan said sometime fairly tame, that Leah has been saying for two seasons and they blew up on her. The reaction to Bershan was over the top and made me side eye them. Nothing she said was more outrageous than things Ramona, Sonja, Dorinda or Luann have said in group settings. 
 

I also was disgusted in the glee Eboni took in Bershan messing up, when she’ll defend Leah for anything. She is as fake as press on nails. 

[Cat]

IA that the boring old ladies stuff was tame. The OGs should be used to those accusations by now! For me, it was when Bershan called Sonja a f---ing clown the first time at the restaurant. It took the situation to another level. I get why -- Bershan wanted these women to ask about HER, get to know HER, and Sonja was interjecting and talking about herself. But the statement was guaranteed to set the hens clucking, and that's why this (and later at the hotel when Bershan called Sonja a clown again) seemed like maybe Bershan was turning it up for the cameras. Not that they weren't all happy to play along for the cameras too and act outraged. Leah and Luann looked thrilled. Sonja was totally boozed out so that may explain some of her OTT reaction. At the hotel, she seemed genuinely surprised by what she thought had been Bershan coming for her.

You saw next week's trailer, right? The altercation looks nuts, and it seems like everyone is trying to get Sonja to face up to her drinking.

[FrenchBug82]

In all fairness, and I am not defending her because I am not fond of her either, but Bershan immediately came for Eboni too in her first appearances so what's good for the goose etc.

See. Here is the thing. Housewives is not good at doing that because it doesn't talk about secrets until they are revealed and then it becomes a pile-on.

But life is complicated. People are complicated. It can be both true that she was, say, turning a blind eye to Girardi's shenanigans because she enjoyed the lifestyle and that she now is genuinely scared and sad and lost. 
It is a really hard thing for people to explore their compassion towards people who do bad things. If she is indeed heart-broken, does it excuse her looking the other way (at best) before? It is hard in particular because once you are revealed to have lied a lot, it becomes harder to know where the truth is. If she faked her life before, why wouldn't be faking now?

But it is also entirely possible that the real truth lies in between and hard to easily throw into a Good/Evil frame.
It could be she didn't know the details, knew enough to be suspicious not everything was on the up-and-up but both her love/affection for Tom and her sense of entitlement to her lifestyle helped her not want to try and dig deeper. How many of us have not asked questions when we didn't think we'd like the answers? There is nothing harder than making someone admit something when their livelihood relies on them not admitting it.
She may not have realized the depravity. The fund transfer could have been thought to be a tax liability trick or some other things. Or maybe she did know and didn't care.
And she could be genuinely remorseful either way! And She can genuinely miss Tom while trying to save her own hide. Be genuinely scared and upset and still work hard to stage her own salvation. Or she could be a horrible selfish person who didn't care then and don't care now and is just trying to save herself.
Life is complicated. People are complicated. It is hard to know what is within people's heart and what happens in people's homes.

I was thinking this just a couple days ago in the context of the discussion around Gizelle and Jamal.
Blind items had "announced" their reconciliation "arrangement" months before it happened so it was clear to me from the get-go that it hadn't been an organic romantic reunion but something more "rational"
BUT who are we to judge? Even if it is an arrangement: so? they care enough for each other to like being around each other but are motivated by the side benefits of being together more than passion. Maybe Giz figured she wasn't going to be lucky in love so since she likes Jamal, she could live with him having his own sex life if she could have a family again and enjoy the financial and PR benefits. So? Is that an illegitimate reason for people to be together? 
How many couples do we know have stayed together for reasons other than pure passion? It is a bit weird in their case since they had separated but there are a gazillion ways for couple to form or stay together that do not involve only traditional romantic love. We don't know what it is in their heads and what motivates them. Where is the line between "fake" and what is "different from what I would do"?

Anyway point is Housewives is not doing  a good job of exploring those shades of grey because the women are too busy scoring points against each other and fans are playing faves with those they like or dislike.
But I reckon in all these cases the truth is infinitely more complicated and harder to give a definite judgement on than if we only take the little bits of info we have at face value. It is on them for refusing to reveal everything - obviously if Erika or Giz levelled with us it would be a different story. But I stay ambivalent because my instincts is that True Horrible People are rarest than everyone's actions would suggest.

Edited July 17, 2021 by FrenchBug82

[Cat]

I hear what you're saying. Complexity is possible on these RH shows, but sometimes, as production sketches storylines with increasingly broad strokes, that complexity is reduced to bad vs good or to easily identifiable 'teams' (like on New Jersey). Team Teresa vs Team Jackie, etc. It's easy to market SLs like that, reduce it to a 15 second trailer. Complexity results not from the 'plots' themselves, but from the women's ability to show themselves as complex but in a way that is identifiable to the audience as we recognise complexity within ourselves.

Erika's way of being has not been identifiable or relatable to viewers. In fact, she was so closed off for years, seemingly bored or in a bad mood, that she didn't have members of the audience warming to her as a human being. Which may be why BH viewers appear to revel in her downfall. And what a downfall it is! Because for all her guardedness, Erika was the wealthy Alpha of the BH cast in recent years. Many of the newbies may have gone against her at first, but ended up wanting to be accepted by her (Dorit, Teddi). That near-hero worship did not really translate to the majority of the audience.

Compassion is really interesting because I was thinking the other day that if I had a friend, like Erika, who left her husband and he turned out to have embezzled millions from victims of terrible traumatic events, and put it in her bank account, what would I do? Would I be so horrified and disgusted that I drop her as a friend? Do I stand by her now, at one of the worst points in her life? I think that if this was someone I knew very well and cared about, then yes, I would want to be a caring friend to her. I know that is not-great to say when you think about it in the context of those victimized by the crimes of someone like Tom Girardi. Would I ask myself if she might have known about the money being embezzled? Yes, of course. And I would ask her. Who knows if my viewpoint would change about my friend as time goes by, and more info emerges. It probably would. That is the nature of complexity, I guess. It's shades of grey, as you say.

I also don't have an answer as to whether I think Erika is 100% guilty and knew everything and this is all a big act. Sometimes it feels like a soap opera audition. And sometimes it doesn't. I appreciate Erika talking about what she's going through instead of playing her usual Too Kool 4 Skool persona and pretending it's no big deal and Pointedly Sipping a Glass of I-Don't-Give-A-Sh!t-Champagne in the VTs. That attitude from Erika got old three seasons ago and it would have played appallingly to this season's viewership. There is no question that the criminal charges in of themselves are NOT shades-of-grey, but quite clearly fraud.

 

The Gizelle-Jamal thing.... I feel empathy and pity for her because of what she went through with him. This past year we all heard the rumors about what she went through in the early part of their relationship, the STD, the time spent under care to try and get her mental health together. How could I not feel deep empathy for someone who went through that? 

It added another layer to Gizelle that I don't normally see on the show. Gizelle is locked up tight. It also adds some shading to what Chris Samuels said about her, that "Hurt people hurt people."

It's because she went through years of hell that I wonder why she would want to put herself through it again. Truthfully, I don't think she would, which is why I don't quite buy the relationship we saw on our screen last season. Why I get bitchy towards Gizelle on this thread is when she goes for the jugular with other people, accusing them of lying about the state of their relationships! It doesn't seem fair to do that if you might be doing that yourself, no? But as far as her relationship with Jamal... I'd be interested to see her talk about what made her go back to him, because I have never really seen her explain the 'Why.'. What kind of love is this for her? Is it the old passion welling up in her again? Or is this the newer 'rational arrangement' that you talk about? Honestly, I'm not against Gizelle showing us layers to herself. Far from it. But she hasn't gone deep into detail up until now.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Cat

[Chris B]

@FrenchBug82Erika is in court fighting to keep the victims from getting Tom’s money so she can get it. I don’t buy anything she’s selling. She also knew about this since 2019 but is claiming on camera this was all a surprise to her. It’s hard for me to feel any sympathy for her when I’ve read the court documents and they prove she’s just plain lying. 

[Cat]

@Chris B Danny Pellegrino on his latest podcast has an interview with Bershan herself in the last 20 minutes and it's a good one!

[j swift]

I think there's one other interesting piece to the narrative Erika is trying to sell on RHOBH.  When she first left Tom she stated in a couple of different scenes that he would try to punish her.  The implication seemed to be that the stories implicating her in Tom's fraud would be his revenge for her betrayal.  Luckily nobody seems to be buying that excuse, but I thought it was at least a creative attempt on Erika's part to explain her complicity.

That being said, I have some sympathy for a woman pushing 50, who seemed to bury her gold digging head in sand, and now is anxious about how she will support herself in the future.  I feel like it doesn't diminish the suffering of those who were victims to Tom's fraud to feel some compassion for Erika's anxiety.

[Chris B]

But she's literally in court, present day, fighting to prevent some of the victims from getting settlements so she can keep the money for herself. I just don't see how anybody can have sympathy for her. Even if she didn't know, she knows now and is still refusing to work with the legal system in any way. That doesn't sound like a person who is innocent.

[FrenchBug82]

OK I hate that I am diving into the rabbit hole of sounding like I am defending her because I am not AND I strongly lean towards agreeing with you. What we know now certainly suggests she had an active role.
BUT
I also know there is a LOT we don't know.
For instance, there might be legal reasons for which she is taking those legal stances: her lawyers might have told her she would be in legal jeopardy otherwise. A bit like a lawyer advises you to shut up and not talk to the police, regardless of whether you are innocent or not. It might sound callous or may make you look guilty but it might be a sound legal strategy. Who knows what's behind it? 
From the POV of an accused who do not think they did the crime, not being convicted is as much "justice" as making sure the victims are made whole. So in her mind, the former may be the priority and it doesn't have to make her a monster if she was guilty more of willful blindness than of being an active co-conspirator.
We don't know her level of guilt and there might be a lot of variety of reasons for which she is taking the current strategy that are perfectly compatible with her being innocent-ish.

Also, I wholeheartedly sympathize with the victims who are, ultimately, the victims. But let's not be naive. They too are following a PR strategy to put pressure on the Girardis, leaking stuff that make them look particularly bad (and that may or may not be missing some important context) and staging themselves to be as sympathetic as possible. It doesn't mean I don't believe them; it just means that shaping public opinion is ALSO a factor in their choices and making it sound as black and white as possible is in their interest. What they leak may not be the full story.
We cannot take anything at face value in a high-stakes battle such as this one.

Is there a high likelihood that Erica's role in all this will be too s***y for us to muster some sympathy in the end? Yes.
It is a case closed we-know-everything-and-it-is-a-wrap throw-away-the-key situation? No. Not for now at least.

[Taoboi]

Nor has she made a case to have any sympathy for the other victims so I agree. Perhaps if she did...Some way...ANY kind of way...would go a long way to get people on her side. Maybe even over the very public court documents out there that anyone can read to see why people actually feel she is either guilty at most or know more than what she is telling at the least. And there have truly been enough to see in articles and online over the last year for sure (heck, how long have we been dropping articles here from all over as it was happening? hmmm) to give reason to NOT give the benefit of the doubt beyond the show. And even on the show her story is hard to swallow. And that is just fact, not even a like/hate fave/not-fave thing. 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Taoboi

[Cat]

@Taoboi Remember our ole fave Terri DiMarco? Now she's trying to make 'Tequila Terry' happen. Doesn't brush her hair extensions for days! Omg totes crazy, you guys! 

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Somebody desperate for a spot on the show? 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Cat

[Chris B]

Also, people have given her the benefit of the doubt because due to the ongoing lawsuits she may or may not be able to talk about certain things, but she IS talking on Twitter and the show, she just isn't saying anything that would make you particularly sympathetic towards her. Does anybody think it was a good idea for her to post a picture wearing earrings that said "Widows and Orphans?" Like what the hell? She's mocking them.

This tweet I also found particularly egregious and was glad to see Ronald Richards response:

 

It almost feels like she doesn't have a lawyer because I can't imagine any good lawyer telling her that the statements she keeps making on social media are helping her case.

[Cat]

Wait, what?

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She posted a pic mocking the victims?? I missed that. Who thought that was a good idea? 

I was sort of feeling bad for her given how massive these lawsuits are, but if she's mocking victims, and blocking restitution to them, AND doing it all on social media where she thinks her 'fans' will be YASS KWEENing her posts? Then she is cruel, deluded and [!@#$%^&*] stupid.