I think this is probably true. That was such a weird decade, but it stays with you, and in the long run I think it probably ended up being a blueprint for what modern America was going become.

Oddly enough I actually find a lot of 90s stuff much more dated than 80s stuff...

In the '80s, you had posers posing to be rich, fabulous and flossin', in the '90s, you had posers posing to be deep, artistic and real. "Alec, I'll take The '80s for $1,000."

In the '80s, you had posers posing to be rich, fabulous and flossin', in the '90s, you had posers posing to be deep, artistic and real. "Alec, I'll take The '80s for $1,000."

Yeah there was a lot of fake-earnestness and deadly dull seriousness and a need to make a "statement." Some of this was well-intentioned but it fed into the idea of "PC" and the backlash against anything which wasn't about glorifying very conservative white straight guys.

I do miss that some of the films, music, TV shows, etc. of that era, especially the first half of the 90s, tried to make a statement and to broaden horizons, but it's all very tedious to look at now, and sometimes like an alien planet...if Knots Landing had lasted a few years long they probably would have had Karen shrieking IT TAKES A VILLAGE to a bratty Meg, as she shrieked at a bratty Diana about the importance of the ERA.

The first time I heard Up the Ladder to the Roof was on a music channel on cable and I was hooked. I had no idea this was the Supremes. Then I heard the Jean Supreme's stuff like Stone Love (which is one of the best songs ever, I truly think it is), I'm Gonna Let My Heart do the Walking, Floy Joy, and it's just brilliant. When I bought the anthology of the Supremes I listened to their post-Diana stuff all the time, possibly because I'd never heard it anywhere else for so many years. They also had some good stuff with Scherrie Payne, like the Sha La Bandit.

Some of their disco gems have started to appear on compilations--Let Yourself Go, I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do the Walking, etc.

If you don't know their 1972 album, The Supremes Produced by Jimmy Webb seek it out (I think the only way to find it on CD is in a box set). I'm a huge Jimmy Webb fan, so am biased, and it didn't have any hit singles, but it's a gorgeously written, produced, and sung album (much like his most underappreciated album, 1969's Sunshower, the first album for Thelma Houston who he discovered--I had to get the Japanese import of that, even though it's an album those "in the know" always talk about--it's one of my fave albums of all time).

I'm almost positive that article must have been about Tonéx which is so funny because I was going to mention him but thought a gospel name would be lost to you all. Yeah, he did a very interesting and controversial interview on a gospel talk show, it's on YouTube. Had a LOT of people talking, when really, all he did was say aloud what the black church has known for decades and has chosen to turn a blind eye to or deride as sin. It's weird when a preacher is tearing down homosexuals and they're in the congregation shouting "Amen!" I would get into the Rev. James Cleveland, but that's a whole 'nother story...

It sure was about Tonex! I had no idea who he was before, but it was a great piece (some of it is here http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/02/08/100208fa_fact_sanneh as well as an audio blog about it). Sure he came off as kinda arrogant, but I expect that, but what he said made a lot of sense (and showed how little sense the church made lol).

In the '80s, you had posers posing to be rich, fabulous and flossin', in the '90s, you had posers posing to be deep, artistic and real. "Alec, I'll take The '80s for $1,000."

Aww the grunge movement. Which actually--I liked some of the music, but I hated (and still do) the attitude that it was more authentic, or real than anything else. (Living on the West Coast in a city, Victoria, that is half millionaire rich people, half tourists and half "granola" hippies, we still have some of that with the hippies--many who are my friends, but I know more than a few who are insanely pretentious about their "hippieness" lol).

This goes back tothe music--it's like how now there's this belief among many that even in pop or dance music, the music can't be "authentic" (I hate that term) if it wasn't written or co written by the singer. Nevermind that often those songs are as cliches as anything else, or that no one used to hold that belief about music pre 1970 (were Frank Sinatra, or Ella Fitzgerald not "authentic" artists?), or that no one suggests Meryl Streep should start writing her own dialogue.

There's a brilliant book about this double standard in music, called Faking It: The Quest for Authenticity in Popular Music (http://www.amazon.com/Faking-Quest-Authenticity-Popular-Music/dp/0393060780/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274407071&sr=1-1). The author raises a ton of good points about music that many assume is truly authentic, is actually more manufactured than, say, some disco. Truth is I actually got it because they have a whole chapter comparing Donna Summer's work as a vocalist AND songwriter with other late 70s artists who were taken much more seriously--mainly men and mainly in rock. I found out about the book from an interview where the author said:

“I think Donna Summer ... is one of the great musical innovators and performers,” says Taylor, “and she is definitely not seen that way. As for overrated musicians, I’d say John Lee Hooker and Lightnin’ Hopkins are both pretty limited talents whose output has been overpraised for its supposed authenticity and where the praise far exceeds the music’s value.

“I also feel that the whole metal scene has suffered greatly because of the pursuit of authenticity. Metal used to be a great, theatrical, inauthentic genre, and the personal, confessional mode of all these pop-metal bands like Staind and Evanescence is nowhere near as much fun.”

Aww the grunge movement. Which actually--I liked some of the music, but I hated (and still do) the attitude that it was more authentic, or real than anything else. (Living on the West Coast in a city, Victoria, that is half millionaire rich people, half tourists and half "granola" hippies, we still have some of that with the hippies--many who are my friends, but I know more than a few who are insanely pretentious about their "hippieness" lol).

That reminds me of a documentary on Big Brother and the Holding Company. On the DVD they had a ton of bonus scenes with people interviewed for the documentary, and one of them, a woman who was a music critic during the heyday of the Haight Ashbury era, talked about how rock music was pretty much ruined in the late 60s and early 70s as it became so much about having to compete with other bands and about showing how pure you were and how superior you were. She said when rock music was just about people having fun and wanting to make good records, it was so much more creative and enjoyable.

Little Bo Peep called, Miss Ross. Her sheep request the return of their tails A-SAP.

How come SON doesn't censore your swearing, but does mine *cry*

For the same reason you can't watch videos on ABC.com...you're Canadian.

And Diana Ross has had some awful plastic surgery. Girlfriend looks baaaaaaaaaaad.

How much has Loretta Swit had? I haven't seen her in years but for a long time she was the face, no pun intended, of bad plastic surgery, wasn't she?

How much has Loretta Swit had? I haven't seen her in years but for a long time she was the face, no pun intended, of bad plastic surgery, wasn't she?

Loretta Swit has had such weird work done but in the last few years time has substantially helped her face recover, she's looking far more natural.

I looked for a photo of her and the most recent I saw was 2008.

What is Tina Louise like these days? She looked so pretty even when she was on Dallas, but by the 80s it was downhill.

DaytimeFan, do you know who is Cindy Craword's surgeon/dermatologist?

I looked for a photo of her and the most recent I saw was 2008.

What is Tina Louise like these days? She looked so pretty even when she was on Dallas, but by the 80s it was downhill.

Tina Louise is one of those women who is too thin for her frame. Her face looks hollowed out.

DaytimeFan, do you know who is Cindy Craword's surgeon/dermatologist?

Not sure if she still goes to him since she lives fulltime in LA, but she went to Dr Jean Louis Sebagh for decades. In fact, her skincare line (which is formulated with an atrocious sunscreen) is co-owned by him.

How about everyone's favorite TV mom, Florence Henderson a.k.a. Carol Brady? Haven't seen her lately but whoever did her work should be commended on a job well done!