Plastic Surgery of the Soap Stars

[EricMontreal22]

There's a great doc out there called, I think Gay Sex in the 70s that touches on all that. Just such a different time, and I have to admit I KINDA get why some people thought AIDS was suddenly delivered as a punishment for all this hedonism (though I don't believe that of course). Also one of my fave gay novels, Dancer from the Dance is basically all about the underground gay disco scene of the time--I think I'd love it, but I'm not sure it would abeen good for me to live at that time anyway lol. (HA on a disco forum we were just talking about those ubiquitous space laser sound effects that were in so many disco tracks--not too much Donna Summer though--and yet don't seem to have a musical name, or have ever really been used post 1980 or so lol).

[SFK]

That is hiLARIOUS! Score one for Mary!

[DRW50]

That wasn't the special where they fought over the microphone, right?

Mary was the most underrated Supreme. I love the stuff Mary did with the group after Diana left. I actually prefer the Jean Terrell era to the Diana era.

I was also glad that the whole attempt to revive the Supremes with Diana and two women who were barely in the group and never with Diana didn't go anywhere.

[SFK]

You just know Diane stood in the mirror boppin' practicing making those tails dance like that. I wonder if Bob Mackie made that ensemble for her.

[EricMontreal22]

Really astute observation (and I was born in 1980 lol). It's funny too how for a long time people liked to act like the 70s were the evil result of the 60s--the belief that somehow the ideas of free love and drug exploration were "pure" in the 60s and then became corrupeted into a consumer and selfish version of the two in the 70s, has proven to not really be that true (the 60s free love and flower power era, for one, was horrifically misogynistic, with women finally getting much more power and freedom of choice in the 70s). And as much as there were places like Studio 54--the disco mantra and aethetic was as much about as inclusion as anything else (even the attitude, that some could see as self absorbed of course, that no longer were there stars and non stars, but now you could be your own star on the dancefloor).

It's very easy, and even more common to blame older generations and one's parents for the troubles you're facing, but I think (and this goes back to all the work in counselling--as a counsellor and a patient I've done) the extreme cases of alienation and loss of direction so many of my generation feel did come from growing up in the 80s. lol

[SFK]

Yeah, didn't that tour like never even get off the ground? Cancelled before it even started? An a cappella group in high school did "Up the Ladder to the Roof" and I assumed it was a Beatles song or something, had no idea where they got the idea to do the Supremes.

[alphanguy74]

Eric, here is a perfect example of how far Diana has fallen as a performer. If you know the song, she completely turns the words around, doesn't even sing the third verse, but inserts the first verse and part of the second in it's place, and the song pretty much implodes after 2:10. And I have ANOTHER performance on tape of the same song that's WORSE... where she actually keeps signing at the end after the orchestra stops, and then she screams like a little girl when she realizes what she's done, and then the orchestra starts again to try and cover her butt. an unmitigated DISASTER it was.(Here she stops signing before the end of the song, and just forgets all the words) and this bitch had a TELEPROMPTER to look at!

[EricMontreal22]

I believe that, I think she was stillvery strong throughout the 80s. A friend of mine saw that recent Supremes tour (which was a mishmash of members who were there with Diana and in the post Diana lineup) and he said the vocals were actually spot on. I'm pretty sure Mary was a part of that. (I've actually always loved the post Diana uremes stuff--they did a gorgeous LP with Jimmy Webb, and then some great underated disco stuff that only really hit in the clubs).

[DRW50]

I agree that disco was as much about inclusion. For all the focus on Studio 54 and on pretty people and drugs, there were millions of others who were never anywhere near Studio 54 and yet they felt welcomed by the music. It's the music which has the last word, more than any trends or media writeups. That type of music is a great release for anyone. Something like "I Feel Love" is pure release.

The late 60s tends to be analyzed to death because it was the age so many Baby Boomers remember as being very important to their lives, and they shape events to fit what makes them feel more profound. I remember that VH1 special, which took on a topic you see a lot, which talked about how 1968 was when "the dream died." Grace Slick talked about how she and others believed at the time that if you took a lot of drugs and read a lot of books, you could change the world and the way the world thinks. Then she and others realized that wasn't possible. But looking back, was Grace Slick of 1966 or 1967 really that different from Grace Slick of 1977? There was more time spent sleeping with band members and less time spent spewing profanity at innocent German concertgoers, but there wasn't a huge difference.

[DRW50]

I think this is probably true. That was such a weird decade, but it stays with you, and in the long run I think it probably ended up being a blueprint for what modern America was going become.

Oddly enough I actually find a lot of 90s stuff much more dated than 80s stuff...

[EricMontreal22]

Of course I know the song--who do you take me for! lol I feel so bad for the other girls--especially Scherrie Payne who I've always had a soft spot for. When I saw her, one of the songs she clearly sang live she blanked out on the lyrics as well--can't remember which one. And didn't she walk out on a UK concert recently complaining about cell phone cameras or some bullshit?

[SFK]

I'm almost positive that article must have been about Tonéx which is so funny because I was going to mention him but thought a gospel name would be lost to you all. Yeah, he did a very interesting and controversial interview on a gospel talk show, it's on YouTube. Had a LOT of people talking, when really, all he did was say aloud what the black church has known for decades and has chosen to turn a blind eye to or deride as sin. It's weird when a preacher is tearing down homosexuals and they're in the congregation shouting "Amen!" I would get into the Rev. James Cleveland, but that's a whole 'nother story...

[DRW50]

The first time I heard Up the Ladder to the Roof was on a music channel on cable and I was hooked. I had no idea this was the Supremes. Then I heard the Jean Supreme's stuff like Stone Love (which is one of the best songs ever, I truly think it is), I'm Gonna Let My Heart do the Walking, Floy Joy, and it's just brilliant. When I bought the anthology of the Supremes I listened to their post-Diana stuff all the time, possibly because I'd never heard it anywhere else for so many years. They also had some good stuff with Scherrie Payne, like the Sha La Bandit.

[alphanguy74]

That was in Jamaica, I think... it's my opinion that her drinking problems are far worse than one might imagine... I mean we ALL saw that police came of her in the blockbuster parking lot.

[EricMontreal22]

LOL! Well said. Yeah I think part of the problem is people my age are so sick of hearing about that era, that it's a natural backlash--but there is this attitude (even now) that they had erverything rigth and then something went terribly wrong, but none of those people involved in the movement seem really willing to take credit for things going too far and going wong (my mom talks about how her younger sister entered high school and suddenly that school decided that grades were not needed, nor was attendence, etc, and the kids just sorta became lost--it went too far in the other direction lol). Of course human nature always seems to go too far to one extreme or the other, but...

The 90s feel more dated to me than the 80s (or 70s) as well, but I think part of that is just that the decade closest to your own often feels more dated--until it has mor etime away. Dunno why