Members JaneAusten Posted January 26, 2010 Members Share Posted January 26, 2010 It says a lot also that the primarily female viewing audience wants Liz lambasted. Frons has certainly trained his viewers alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 26, 2010 Members Share Posted January 26, 2010 The most pathetic part of this story is that Liz was the long-suffering heroine, forced to put up with a loser like Lucky, while Luke was the lost father forced to put up with a loser like Lucky, until Jonathan Jackson returned, and then everything is turned upside down so we can get endless propping and ACTING showcases, like the last time the golden boy was around. Liz is once again just Lucky's property, and we are apparently to believe she has been a loser ever since the end of the days when Lucky found her in the snow. What a lovely message to send out -- it was all downhill after Liz stopped being the rape victim Lucky saved. They spent years decimating any relationships Lucky had and they seem to think just because their hero is back, then it's automatically believe that Luke or Lulu give a fig about him. And they are apparently so desperate to get this going that they have to write some sort of weird mess where we sneer at a rape victim for not living up to her sainted protector's standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Or maybe we just hate Liz no "training" necessary. Just because I am a woman that doesn't mean I have to support a serial cheater and liar no matter their gender. This was a take down I've been waiting for a very very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Oh please. The character has lapped up every second of being told what a perfect little saint she is and lording that over other women on the show. Look how self righteous she was with Rebbecca. Liz loved being on the pedestal Lucky put her on, if she didn't she could have taken herself off of it at any time. She didn't have to go back to him after their divorce. She chose to and then she cheated on him with his own brother. Her "sainted protector" didn't exactly have impossible standards set for her. He took her back after she let him think he had a child when he didn't and then she stabbed him in the back with his own brother. If not fu*cking your finance's brother is too high a standard for Liz, than boohoo, she shouldn't have proposed after Lucky called off the engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 I can't stand Liz and I have not liked her in a long time (probably since the first Jason/Liz scenes, which is when she started becoming so entitled). I'm not defending her behavior so much as I am bothered by the writing saying yesterday that the happy moments with Liz and Lucky were when he found her broken in the snow. This is one of several times in the past few months they have reduced Liz and her relationship with Lucky to being about her rape and how he helped her recover. I think the implication in the writing that she failed him by not becoming what he expected after her brutal assault is extremely crass and misogynist. The mere idea of a relationship highlight being when he found her bleeding and left for dead after a rape. Besides, it was the show that put her on that pedestal. They only knocked her off when they needed to prop JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 But he never said that was the highlight of their relationship and I've never had that impression. He said that she is no longer the same person she was back then, which is a very different thing. For better or worse, it was during that time that they fell in love, so he is basically saying Liz is no longer the person he fell in love with. That's a conclusion people often come to, especially when it comes to teenage love, so I'm not seeing the big deal. It would have been more insightful if Lucky had also realized he isn't the same as he was back then either, but I think that's been brewing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cheap21 Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 whatever. Alot of people that are hating on Liz now have hated her for YEARS! The writing isnt anything new bc she's been a lying, hypocrtical, selfish tramp for a while now. Her actions ALWAYS go excused with most people giving her a free pass. In the past, the only ones allowed to call her out were the "evil bitches", Carly, Maxie and Sam and they were all villified while Liz was propped up as some marytr. The writing has finally stopped putting rose colored glasses where she is concerned and her dirty actions arent being excused. She's being called out and she deserves it bc in the past, she's had no problems being judegemental and calling people out on their ish. Really, she's no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaneAusten Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Heck I don't care for Liz but I have never liked her. I don't think the character is a mess as some have illuded to. She's a self righteous hypocrite. Personally I liked her better when she first came on the show as more of a bad girl to her sister Sarah than this saint the show turned her into. People complain about Carly getting pimped and propped but Liz is at an equal level if not moreso. And she looks her nose down at Carly and everyone else as if she's some paragon of virtue. She was like this before she was paired with Jason. Once they paired her with Jason she got the extra special propping that all Jason's Love interests get. She became even more entitled and while it's nice to see her sort of get her get some of it back, I doubt it will be enough. We have Robin on this show who's a heroine who gets talked back to and down to by Patrick, Epiphany, and others, Alexis gets similar treatment, yet Liz has every man on this show on her side. What's crap is that Liz changed on a dime once Real Lucky was back. And it's almost like everything that happened to Liz and Lucky in terms of their relationship is being defined by what happened 10 years ago, not what's happened in the past 10 years aside from Liz's cheating. A lot of it probably has to do with how badly Lucky's been lambasted for Liz. And what I will say about Lucky is that unlike so many characters on this show who screw up(ie: Liz) and seem to get excused for their actions and lose nothing, Lucky got hooked on drugs, lost his job and family and was allowed to go through a redemption of sorts to build himself back up only to be cheated on once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 I think it's actually Lucky and the way characters treat him that has changed now that JJ is back. Liz is the same, imo. I think this story would have gone very differently if GV had still been in the role. I couldn't agree more that that's bullshit and GV was shafted and the character of Lucky treated like crap while he was in the role. On the one hand, I'm glad Lucky is getting decent writing again, he should be one of the shows leads, but the bias of the writers is as clear as it's ever been and that pisses me off. I really wish Epiphany had stepped in today and told LuLu that enough is enough. It was very out of character for her not to do so and all that we needed for LuLu today was a couple of lines, not a whole tirade. I don't care what LuLu did as a teenager, none of it compares to what Liz has repeatedly done as a grown woman with children, so that's not my issue, but it just wasn't necessary to hear her give Liz such a long smackdown in public. Carly just NEVER learns and I desperately need her to. Why bring Jake into the mob lifestyle? Isn't Michael screwed up enough to prove that it is not a good idea to expose another child to Jason's life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Yes, but he chose to highlight that moment. There were many other moments he could have chosen. He wasn't even in love with Liz at that time. He fell in love with her months later, during the long period where he was estranged from his family and living alone. I think they are trying to tie Liz and Lucky together exclusively through her rape and implying that everything was downhill after she didn't become the person he expected post-assault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 I guess I just don't see the big deal in that. Lucky finding her in the snow is arguably the beginning of their relationship. Liz is no longer the person he thought she was during that time. I'm not seeing a misogynistic conspiracy in this. Especially since Lucky is owning up to his own childish illusions in the relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaneAusten Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 Yeah I suppose I misspoke. I personally liked GV and I'll never understand why, if they didn't care for his portrayal of Lucky, they didn't just recast. Or did he just become the convenient whipping boy like AJ and Ric were and prop for Liz and that's why they wanted to keep him around, to keep her sainted hyprocritical halo in place. I think the Carly/Jason/Sam stuff was nonsense but while I dislike Carly, I've never thought Carly felt she was better than Elizabeth. What she hated was Liz always looking her nose down at her. What she's relishing I think is that this person has finally been exposed for who she is. No better than those she looked her nose down at. I had to laugh at Lulu today calling Liz on her lambasting of Rebecca' lies along with many others. But someone tell me what robin wsa doing. I have fear robin's going to end up being Liz's defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 I love Carly and I loved the glee she felt at Liz's fall, but her blind spot when it comes to the mob is driving me nuts. She admits it was a mistake to bring Michael into a mob family, but she thinks things will be different if Jason brings his own son into it? Damn Jax was treacherous today. I understand it and kind of like it, but I actually feel bad for Michael. I'm sorry that Jax is going to screw Michael over, no matter how much Sonny deserves the slammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AllMyDaysatGH Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 What does everyone think Liz should do after all of this? I'm very curious what the show will do next. Will they keep her going with Nik, will she try to get back with Lucky, what will she do? I personally would like to see her SINGLE for awhile, getting her life back together, raising her boys. Liz is a hot mess right now, LOL. I think she should lay off men for awhile. And when she's ready again, why not experiment with her and Johnny Zacchara or something? Something along the lines of that. Someone totally different, who she rarely talks to. Liason ?? Thoughts at all?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaneAusten Posted January 27, 2010 Members Share Posted January 27, 2010 I prefer they write her off I detest the character so much, Since I know they won't do that, let her be single and back to nurse number 2 behind the nurses station for a while. I suspect Liz and Lucky are going to end up back together at some point though and I hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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