We may not hear as much outcry about Neil/Ashley as we have with others in the past. She's crazy, so that might make some who oppose interracial relationships write her off. Any relationship she has also seems likely to fade once Victor returns, so people may see this as a holding pattern and not pay attention.

Lately, I HAVE enjoyed this shift. Jeanne and Kristoff have incredibly good chemistry together, and it was unexpected. They really compliment each other well. Stafford HAS been on fire the last couple of days, and her and Deacon in scenes together are like a molotov cocktail ready to be thrown.

I agree with every word above.

And what chance has he had to settle in and get a true viewer reaction, he's been on EIGHTEEN EPISODES... freaking PEARL appeared in 15! I was so looking forward to having a REAL gay SL, but I see now it was played for some quick publicity... it's like Maria got together with Sheffer and Hamner in a room and said "Well, let's trot out our token faggots for a couple dozen episodes.... we'll get Thom to do a bunch of press, cause he'll do ANYTHING for me...and then we'll ship him off. We can say wer'e diverse, without having to risk offending all the old ladies in the audience."

Excellent point. Definitely cold feet.

But why does everyone blame Maria/Hogan? Why can't this be Bloom or Kent or Mosko who vetoed? It feels more like that to me...that a planned story got interfered with.

I'm not saying it is either-or...I don't know...but I'm saying we don't have evidence one way or another.

The seductive music during Neil and Ashley's scenes cracked me up. Ashley is acting like she has a brain again. She and Neil can be a power couple.

But why does everyone blame Maria/Hogan? Why can't this be Bloom or Kent or Mosko who vetoed? It feels more like that to me...that a planned story got interfered with.

I think the story worked just as they expected. I never sensed any abrupt rewriting in this the way we have seen in other stories. Both this story and Adam/Rafe used homosexuality as shock value or as a way to show us how far someone fell, but they made sure that the stories did not actually delve into the matter (everyone either accepted the characters being gay or they laughed it off).

Phillip returned. We learned of Cane's secrets and why he should be forgiven. The family got over what Phillip did. Chance arrived, had some brief issues with Phillip. That was also mostly resolved. Mission accomplished.

If there were all kinds of groundbreaking stories being curtailed by someone high above I could see this happening with Phillip too but there are none of those on Y&R. Rauch, Hamner, and Sheffer also have zero history of introducing or giving stories to gay characters.

Everything which people thought was going to happen in this story was just fan conjecture.

I think alphanguy is right. I don't think it was "cold feet", unless you mean the feet were frozen to begin with.

Edited November 11, 200916 yr by CarlD2

It is Maria's show and Maria's vision, why would she even bother to say such things if someone else was pulling the strings?

I bet the abortion rate would skyrocket if people knew they were having Sluts.

She needs more of those on the show now that there is no Diane, Dru or Brad hanging around.

That's the last thing Giggly Heffa needs.

I have a family member who's a slut and I find your attempt at humor with Sharon sickening.

Edited November 12, 200916 yr by DeeeDee

It is Maria's show and Maria's vision, why would she even bother to say such things if someone else was pulling the strings?

Exactly.

It is Maria's show and Maria's vision, why would she even bother to say such things if someone else was pulling the strings?

1. Illusory control?

2. Because things have changed, and Sony decided to rattle that 51% control clause some time after her quote?

3. Face saving?

Can someone link the NB column where she said this? I read it, and I do agree she said something in this spirit...but I'd like to see the direct quote, since this is the rope by which we keep hanging her

ETA: The auteur model of daytime writing is dead...has been for a long time. Even if Maria proclaims herself the supreme master, she's not. That would be just deluded.

Edited November 12, 200916 yr by MarkH

I think the story worked just as they expected. I never sensed any abrupt rewriting in this the way we have seen in other stories. Both this story and Adam/Rafe used homosexuality as shock value or as a way to show us how far someone fell, but they made sure that the stories did not actually delve into the matter (everyone either accepted the characters being gay or they laughed it off).

Phillip returned. We learned of Cane's secrets and why he should be forgiven. The family got over what Phillip did. Chance arrived, had some brief issues with Phillip. That was also mostly resolved. Mission accomplished.

If there were all kinds of groundbreaking stories being curtailed by someone high above I could see this happening with Phillip too but there are none of those on Y&R. Rauch, Hamner, and Sheffer also have zero history of introducing or giving stories to gay characters.

Everything which people thought was going to happen in this story was just fan conjecture.

I think alphanguy is right. I don't think it was "cold feet", unless you mean the feet were frozen to begin with.

How was any of this just fan conjecture? Wasn't it the writers who said that there would be a gay story, even going so far as to say there would be several gay characters on the show. I'd say it was less about fan conjecture and more about the writers lying to the fans. Furthermore, I find it ludicrous to think that Phillip was "dug up out of the ground" just for the purpose of exposing Cane as a fraud and re-introducing Chance. Phillip was not needed for either of those situations which means that Phillip must've had a more extensive purpose in the beginning. I think the writers just chickened out! I think Rafe was supposed to be someone's potential love interest: Either Phillip/Rafe or Chance/Rafe (Chance/Rafe was big internet speculation but I think there might've been some possible truth to it at the time). The end result to all of this is that Phillip is about to abandon his family AGAIN (and he'll get a very stupid ending I hear)! Chance, who so far is nothing more than an extremely uptight mama's boy, is mooning over a woman who will never show any REAL interest in him. And poor Rafe has just vanished altogether.

Edited November 12, 200916 yr by Vanguardian

I've been getting the same vibe, Mark. For some reason I'm wondering if Ryder is

gay

, but who knows.

If the writers have it in their minds to go this route with Ryder, then forget it! They majorly screwed it up the first time around with Phillip, Rafe, and possibly, POSSIBLY even Chance.

Furthermore, I find it ludicrous to think that Phillip was "dug up out of the ground" just for the purpose of exposing Cane as a fraud and re-introducing Chance.

Fans wanted Cane to be exposed as a fraud, but the writers didn't want to make Cane into a bad guy. So they dug up Phillip for him to say that he put Cane up to it because he wanted his family to have a son...20 years after he died. The writers gave the fans their wish and got to keep Cane as the good guy because it was Phillips idea. Unfortunately the writers screwed themselves big time because of the DNA test used to determine Delia's father and that made Cane look worse and hypocritical.

I think the reason they made Phillip gay was because Thom Beirdz said he would only come back if Phillip was gay. I don't think Maria wanted to recast. I don't think Rafe was suppose to be gay. I could swear on my life he was being chem tested with Colleen during the time Jana was shelling out that "Feed the Hungry" program.

I think the reason they made Phillip gay was because Thom Beirdz said he would only come back if Phillip was gay. I don't think Maria wanted to recast. I don't think Rafe was suppose to be gay. I could swear on my life he was being chem tested with Colleen during the time Jana was shelling out that "Feed the Hungry" program.

I think they only made Phil gay to get TB back and they never should have done that. I personally, as a gay guy, found it offensive actually. But then again im 22 and cant picture what times were like when Phil "faked his death because he was gay".

However i do think Rafe was always supposed to be gay, for the adam storyline.

But none of that matters, because both stories sucked. badly.

Picking up on Vanguardian and JP, I'd like to see a permanent (I mean permanent) moratorium on gays in Genoa City. It is so not worth it.

Billy's Cane Hate :wub: :wub:

Paul fingers kitty well.

Edited November 12, 200916 yr by DeeeDee