Y&R Episodes Discussion, Week of October 26, 2009

[y&r_fan]

At the risk of being decapitated by Mark, I'll say that I wouldn't mind having Brittany back. She's worth a thousand Ambers.

[MarkH]

I never saw much similarity to MTS back then, but I see what you mean.

Patti was first briefly played by Tammy Taylor, who later went on DOOL as teen Hope. I liked her. She was an energetic little brunette. I guess she was just a bit too young when they decided to transition her into the Jack Abbott romance.

So Lillibet was initially quite a shock--blonde. But she was sweet and perky. She radiated a very different vibe from MTS.

When Patty was replaced with Andrea Evans that was another sudden shock. Now we had the -- ahem -- distinctive Andrea Evans. She was toned down from her OLTL Tina persona, but nonetheless, she was definitely brought on to play the next "psycho" beat (shooting Jack and forgetting about it). As I recall it, Andrea had very little chemistry with anyone...so once the Jack shooting story was done, it made sense that she was fairly expeditiously backburnered and ushered off the canvas.

[soapydoc]

Well Sharon Case threw more chemistry towards Billy with her "I'll be your professional PSD converter" line than I have seen her give anyone in years. I would not be opposed to them writing them as a fun, flirty couple while we rest from Chilly for a while.

[alphanguy74]

I'm not sure... but I read his twitter page and found out he's a comic book queen.... that scares the HELL out of me. Comic book geeks as a genreal rule usually have VERY dubious taste. All those comic books warp your brain cells. Stories comic fans write can leave the grounding of reality at a moment's notice. I dearly hope he's the exception to this rule. One blog entry I read from him seemed like he had his head on straight. Let's hope so.

[DRW50]

It depends on the comic books. Some comics are great, fascinating, complex characters, gray themes.

Too many comics, especially today, are just misogyny and ugly darkness for the sake of darkness.

Brian Michael Bendis is the Sheffer of the comic world.

[DRW50]

I think it just shows again how little self-esteem Sharon has, after the way Billy used and discarded her when she was losing her mind, she still flirts with him.

I do think Billy and Sharon could have been an interesting couple, but then they just dropped the whole relationship for the Billy/Mac dreariness. If they do go back, it will just be Sharon being used as some sort of piece of meat for the awful Nick/Billy rivalry.

[Juliajms]

I don't think he's the best character on the show, but I like him a lot and I think he's one of the best recasts they've had in a long time. I'd like it if they would give him more Abbott scenes, but they've been doing that lately. I really don't care if he went to Victor for a time. He felt betrayed by Jack when he did that and I can understand that to some degree. He figured out pretty quick that the grass wasn't greener on Victor's side of the fence. Jack is still being controlling when it comes to Billy and he doesn't have the moral authority to back that up right now. If I were Billy, I'd be pissed too.

[DRW50]

He looked up to Victor and asked for his advice on fatherhood, even after Victor was so nasty to Colleen and had made Ashley a shutin. He didn't care about that until he learned Victor had just been using him. Then he proceeded to make their problems all about himself, and use it to score points against Jack. It's not even that he behaved so pathetically but that the writers actually used this to yet again make Jack look bad. Oh Jack, why weren't you there for us like Billy? It was ridiculous, and more of their agenda at work.

Billy always makes a production out of how hurt he is and what a hard time he has and how he needs this or that to be validated, but he has no time for anyone else. I don't know if they really want us to pity him, or if they want us to see him as this hothead we can't help but love, but he's all over the place and for me he has too shallow of relationships on the show to provide a foundation for him.

I think if they had cast Billy Miller in another role, and then perhaps given him more coaching, then they would have worked out better. As it is, I think what connects Billy to his past, like his family, like Mackenzie, has repeatedly been a huge weak spot in BM's work and he really doesn't seem to be able to connect with most of them in scenes. If he was brought in for a role like an interloper, a new businessman shrouded in mystery, he could have been wonderful.

I haven't seen that much fanfare for him at other places either, not recently. I think he took a huge hit when he started sleeping with Sharon and when Mac came back. A lot of fans were hoping for a turnaround with the Restless Style story but so far it's the usual rushed emptiness we get with so much else on the show.

[Juliajms]

If you are trying to tell me that Billy is selfish, well, yeah he is. Just like Victor and Jack before him. I don't have a problem with him finding out for himself that Victor is an ass. I don't see how Billy could really know what was going on with Ashley. No one does even to this point except Adam. I don't see why Billy would think that Victor is responsible for what was happening to Ashley. Ashley is an adult and I don't think anyone had a reason to think Victor was shutting her away against her will early on. It wasn't Billy's place to step at the beginning.

But I can't really argue any of this with passion because the writing had everyone acting so stupid at that point. Adam would have been Victor's first suspect. At the very least Victor would have had Ashley or Adam removed from the ranch, we all know that. Barring that Ashley would have left on her own or Jack would have stepped in once it was clear Ashley didn't know what she was doing.

[DRW50]

The problem is Billy wasn't called out on his selfishness. When he very belatedly went to get Ashley, we had Traci basically make comments to the effect that Billy cared and Jack didn't. Billy said the same. The show made a big production out of Billy swooping in to save Ashley, when he did this long after she needed help. They knew that house was dangerous and yet no one got her until far too late. So Billy ignored Ashley and Colleen until after he was personally betrayed, yet the show sold this as him being loyal to them.

[Juliajms]

I guess I just see most of this as the writing problems that all of the characters are experiencing. Not a problem with Billy Miller's portrayal of Billy. I'm glad he was brought on as a member of a core family, instead of a fringe character. Not to say he is perfect, but I think when the writing is there he usually gives a good performance and I think he plays the cocky "smilin' Jack" aspect of his character well. I like Peter Bergman, but his version of Jack is more smug than cocky. How I wish just one woman would deck him when he calls them "sweetheart" in that condescending tone.

Lately, I think they are trying to give him a stronger presence in the Abbott family, but he can't play scenes that aren't written. The scenes they've given him with Ashley and Jack I think he's done well connecting with them. I do think there should have been more Billy/Colleen bonding scenes, but the writers chose not to go there. I'm not sure if it's because they didn't want to write for Colleen or because the actress wasn't available.

Also, I agree with the people who say he's being over exposed. Maybe now that some of the contract disputes have been settled that will be less of a problem. One way or another I hope they find ways to bond him more with Ashley and Jack, while using him a little bit less.

[DRW50]

The writing for Jack is terrible and has been for ages, but the character is constantly called a horrible person, a failure as a father/son/brother/husband/what have you, so I don't think his smugness is as annoying as it would be if he weren't painted as this complete failure.

I guess I see the decision to bring BM in as Billy Abbott as more of a cheat than an attempt to focus on a core family. They can basically write this character any way they want, and then hide behind his last name, even though they have no real interest in him with his family, or in Billy's past history. I'd rather they just create a new character if they're going to treat Billy as a new character. I feel like the Abbotts are basically gone anyway. I feel like Billy and Ashley dislike or ignore most of his family unless they have no choice in the matter. Traci is gone, Jack is painted as the family burden, and there's really no one else.

That's not Billy Miller's fault, of course, but the writing for the character is so awful that it's hard to separate sometimes. That's why I wish they'd just made him a new character, although I do see what you're saying.

[classicmoment]

Sounds like they are testing how far they can push the Billy/Sharon thing and the Sharon/Adam thing to start developing a Billy vs. Nick vs. Adam

[MarkH]

See, I know some of you have reservations about the actors...but from a "family connection" angle, from a "history" angle, and (for me) even from an "actor" angle, I have absolutely no problem with this.

If there would be a way to weave Chance into this, we'd have axes of alliance and conflict between next-generation Chancellors, Abbotts, and Newmans. Adam vs. Nick (since they decided not to go the 'happy family' route) could be quite cool.

It is clear that they have decided to focus on next-generation males rather than females...and that I do believe is probably a Sheffer influence.

These shows do need to extend their base to push into the next generation. I consider this a completely viable -- even organic -- way of doing this. I'm definitely prepared to relax my preconceptions on this.

Heck, I was anti-Emily...but so far she is winning me over too. The lesson to me is to try not to judge, but to see how it plays out. For example, I assumed Kevin confronting his demons would be excellent--but that was a "wrong" prejudgement in the opposite direction--the chipmunk sucked.

I am so far enjoying this healthier, more stable Sharon...and I'm eager to see the choices she makes. It makes perfect sense that she might have ties to both Adam and Billy...and it makes perfect sense that both of those might infuriate Nick.

I think I'd almost like to see Nick realize that the Phyllis-Jack attraction is not totally dead either. (When will Patty reveal to Nick that his wife shagged Jack?). That might make Nick realize that he can't take anything for granted...he has to fight for what he wants in life.

Please don't bash me for expressing optimism and hope and story potential. I'm not naively saying it will happen...I'm saying it could happen...I hope it happens.

[DRW50]

The problem for me with a Nick/Adam/Billy rivalry is what are they fighting over? If it's supposed to be Sharon, then this just means that what should have been the central part of this story, Sharon's grief, is yet again subsided to make her a piece of meat, as her mental breakdown after Brad's death became all about having her give it up over and over. Is it supposed to be about business? Is it supposed to be about Billy writing mean things about Victor? Who cares? Jack wrote mean things about Victor a year ago and Victor came back stronger than ever. If Nick gets upset about that then how stupid is he?

If you just have characters fight for the sake of fighting, then you get pointless, huffy, puffy nonsense, like the Cane/Billy rivalry. Remember when that was supposed to be the great new rivalry?

This has nothing to do with any fighting between families, or future generation conflicts. It's all just d!ck-wagging.