2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

The scraps I've seen of them around the late '00s do feel like a more natural path of where their relationship would have gone rather than just a passive Vanessa wandering around in oversized pajama sets.

while spouting poetry..... *sigh* SMH 

 

14 minutes ago, kalbir said:

There were four Friend of Jill incidents: Vincent Irizarry, Justin Deas, Marcy Walker, Marj Dusay. Also Mark Derwin became a Friend of Jill.

In a way, I don't count VI, because he had been on GL before (in a different role).

VI's run as Nick started off well, IMO, because you had a HW'ing team who knew what and how to write for him.  Once that team was gone, however...?

Unfortunately, Marj Dusay came at a time when the character of Alexandra was falling through the proverbial cracks and a lot of the nuances that Beverlee McKinsey had brought to the role through even the most trying times was gone.  If they had written Marj's Alex more like Myrna Clegg on CAPITOL - or, heck, more like Monica Warner on "The Facts of Life", lol! - I think her time there would have been more successful.

As I've stated many times in the past, I actually like Justin Deas and thought he was a great addition to the show.  Did the writers go overboard writing for his character?  Did the directors not do enough to rein in his excesses as an actor?  Maybe.  Believe it or not, though, JD became one of the very few reasons I stayed as a viewer with GL for as long as I did.  Otherwise, I would've been gone by 1996 at the latest.

And as for the other two:

Mark Derwin is, by no means, a great actor, but he had the advantage of being there at a time when the show had a HW like Nancy Curlee.  So, I guess he was smart to leave when he did, before the wheels fell off the wagon, lol.

On the other hand, poor Marcy Walker, lol.  GL (and JFP) brought her on with nothing to her character except that ridiculous name!  Worse, they hoped that she and Robert Newman would spark right away, and when they didn't, it was clear they didn't know what else to do with her.

6 minutes ago, P.J. said:

while spouting poetry..... *sigh* SMH 

And because Matt/Vanessa were soooooooooo successful, JFP felt compelled to do it all over again with Ben/Viki on OLTL, even though it made no damn sense for Erika Slezak's Viki to hook up with someone like Mark Derwin's Ben after being with men like Lee Patterson/Joe Riley, Bernie Grant/Steve Burke and Clint Ritchie/Clint Buchanan.

28 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

A Billy/Vanessa/Josh/Tangie quad could have been plausible. I do wonder how different Josh's stories might have been if he and Tangie hadn't been such a flop. The idea of Kim Zimmer and Marcy Walker facing off is compelling, although Cynthia Watros probably never would have been hired in that universe.

 

And throw Roger into that mix, who would've only been too happy to explode that bomb...oh, the possibilities.

8 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

And because Matt/Vanessa were soooooooooo successful, JFP felt compelled to do it all over again with Ben/Viki on OLTL, even though it made no damn sense for Erika Slezak's Viki to hook up with someone like Mark Derwin's Ben after being with men like Lee Patterson/Joe Riley, Bernie Grant/Steve Burke and Clint Ritchie/Clint Buchanan.

It is weird how HWs/EPs "reinvision" their characters from show to show. Wasn't there a number of older ladies/younger men relationships seemed to trend there for a while?

51 minutes ago, Khan said:

In a way, I don't count VI, because he had been on GL before (in a different role).

VI return was the same week that JFP was first credited as EP, that's why I count him in the Friend of Jill list.

51 minutes ago, Khan said:

As I've stated many times in the past, I actually like Justin Deas and thought he was a great addition to the show.  Did the writers go overboard writing for his character?  Did the directors not do enough to rein in his excesses as an actor?  Maybe.  

That whole era from the aftermath of Maureen's death to Nancy Curlee leaving the writing team was way too much Buzz, and for me it was a chore to get through.

51 minutes ago, Khan said:

Mark Derwin is, by no means, a great actor, but he had the advantage of being there at a time when the show had a HW like Nancy Curlee.  So, I guess he was smart to leave when he did, before the wheels fell off the wagon, lol.

I didn't think much of Mark Derwin's acting when he was on Y&R, so I was surprised that he became so popular on GL. Remember 1993 SOD Awards he got Hottest Male Star over Antonio Sabato Jr. and was nominated for Lead Actor at the 1993 Daytime Emmys.

1 hour ago, P.J. said:

And throw Roger into that mix, who would've only been too happy to explode that bomb...oh, the possibilities.

I forgot Reva and Roger were intertwined a bit in Reva's last year pre-bridge. 

I remember reading a long-gone GL fic from the mid '90s where Roger interacted with Reva when she was singing by the piano at Towers - I can't remember if they had much interaction in the real GL at that time.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I forgot Reva and Roger were intertwined a bit in Reva's last year pre-bridge. 

I remember reading a long-gone GL fic from the mid '90s where Roger interacted with Reva when she was singing by the piano at Towers - I can't remember if they had much interaction in the real GL at that time.

I haven't watched Roger's return, but other than a couple of scenes during her post-partum, not that I've seen from mid-89 on. Roger's pretty much ensconced in the Spaulding side of town. Roger was involved with Sonni of course, but she's pretty much out of the Lewis' sphere by then.

I don't think Josh ever found out about those pictures either. 

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by P.J.

3 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I haven't watched Roger's return, but other than a couple of scenes during her post-partum, not that I've seen from mid-89 on. Roger's pretty much ensconced in the Spaulding side of town. Roger was involved with Sonni of course, but she's pretty much out of the Lewis' sphere by then.

Thanks. I was wondering about 95-96, although I don't want anyone to watch that period if they don't have to...

I know they interact around 89 or 90 when he takes compromising photos of her.

18 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Vanessa vs Vicky was yet another story of that period which seemed to mostly get dropped. A real waste. 

To me Matt was worse than Frank because even if he was never the most interesting part of the Coopers, I did believe Frank's relationships with his family (especially Harley in her first stint). Matt had scenes with Bridget, and Nola, but I just never believed them as a family unit.

IIRC Matt was initially intended as a love interest for Lucy (was it Lucy?) and the fling with Vanessa only became a real relationship because of vocal audience support (just ask Paul Rauch about that - if you want his spirit haunting you, anyway). I imagine that's one of the reasons why their relationship never felt overly genuine. 

The scraps I've seen of them around the late '00s do feel like a more natural path of where their relationship would have gone rather than just a passive Vanessa wandering around in oversized pajama sets

Oh I really liked that Van vs. Vickie thing, but then they brought back Marj and dropped that, only to drop Marj in a few months.  I always thought Van was the natural successor to Bev/Alex and Marj should never have been cast..Van figthing her old lover Alan for Spaulding would have been good..with a well cast Alan not RR. And yes, anything is better then Van spouting poetry in pajama pants...lol!

I also agree on Frank being more believable than Matt....Frankie D is a terrible actor but in his early years he did have charm and he was always believable as a not so smart, nice guy who wanted to do good for his family..while Matt never connected to Bridget or Nola, and he should have seen Ed as another father figure but every time he calls him "Uncle Ed" its weird. I think the actor is pretty but really, not engaging.  

Did Paul Rauch hate the Mattessa fans??For once I agree with him, if only he held the same disregard for Java fans, etc.

14 hours ago, kalbir said:

I didn't think much of Mark Derwin's acting when he was on Y&R, so I was surprised that he became so popular on GL. Remember 1993 SOD Awards he got Hottest Male Star over Antonio Sabato Jr. and was nominated for Lead Actor at the 1993 Daytime Emmys.

Well, I gotta say I always found Derwin sexy (not a great actor but...) and still find him that way..there is just something naturally masculine about him ..so I can see older women like a pairing with Slezak...though again, it makes no sense. 

2 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Did Paul Rauch hate the Mattessa fans??For once I agree with him, if only he held the same disregard for Java fans, etc.

Around 2000 he was answering questions from SOD and responded to complaints from "Mattessa" fans by essentially saying nothing was ever good enough for them, and when the show had done a big story for them (maybe it was her return, or pregnancy, I don't know) their fans had just complained about them not being in tons of scenes and not being on every day of the week.

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by DRW50

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Around 2000 he was answering questions from SOD and responded to complaints from "Mattessa" fans by essentially saying nothing was ever good enough for them, and when the show had done a big story for them (maybe it was her return, or pregnancy, I don't know) their fans had just complained about them not being in tons of scenes and not being on every day of the week.

Say what you want about Paul Rauch, but for once, he was right.

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

Say what you want about Paul Rauch, but for once, he was right.

Having such entitled fan bases rarely worked out in the long run for GL "supercouples" (Gus/Harley and Michelle/Danny being others). Oddly I don't remember a lot of Reva and Josh fans behaving that way - maybe because toxic breakups were a part of their DNA.

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by DRW50

58 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Having such entitled fan bases rarely worked out in the long run for GL "supercouples" (Gus/Harley and Michelle/Danny being others). Oddly I don't remember a lot of Reva and Josh fans behaving that way - maybe because toxic breakups were a part of their DNA.

It's been my experience that Josh/Reva fans were savvier whenever it came to issues such as airtime.  They understood that it wasn't "The Josh and Reva Show" and that RN and KZ weren't going to be together always, or in every scene of every episode.

IDK how other, longtime GL fans felt, but I thought it was so strange and disheartening to see TPTB at GL kowtow to rabid, entitled fan bases after basically remaining above the fray for most of the '80s and '90s.  Like a fellow GL fan and FB friend once told me, GL (and ATWT) were the soaps for "thinking people."  Their fans tended to be more educated and well-read than fans of other soaps.  And even if you had a favorite character or couple, you didn't watch the shows just for them.  You watched them for the writing and acting more than for anything else.

24 minutes ago, Khan said:

IDK how other, longtime GL fans felt, but I thought it was so strange and disheartening to see TPTB at GL kowtow to rabid, entitled fan bases after basically remaining above the fray for most of the '80s and '90s.  Like a fellow GL fan and FB friend once told me, GL (and ATWT) were the soaps for "thinking people."  Their fans tended to be more educated and well-read than fans of other soaps.  And even if you had a favorite character or couple, you didn't watch the shows just for them.  You watched them for the writing and acting more than for anything else.

That's a good point. Not to say ABC soaps were not for thinking people, as I know that isn't true, but I do think those fanbase tactics were closer to what you got on ABC soaps (or from some of the crazier DAYS fans). Another example of P&G causing their soaps to lose all identity in their last 10-15 years.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Having such entitled fan bases rarely worked out in the long run for GL "supercouples" (Gus/Harley and Michelle/Danny being others). Oddly I don't remember a lot of Reva and Josh fans behaving that way - maybe because toxic breakups were a part of their DNA.

I don't know if they had to..Zimmer and Newman would bitch if they had two days off in a row off..and Zimmer had her little group that could stir up to write in. I think the difference is that both actors were smart enough to know that being together meant being pushed into listening to other's problems and then being scenery. They also wanted to work with other actors and knew that again, Jeva will come around again...and again...and again....

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Around 2000 he was answering questions from SOD and responded to complaints from "Mattessa" fans by essentially saying nothing was ever good enough for them, and when the show had done a big story for them (maybe it was her return, or pregnancy, I don't know) their fans had just complained about them not being in tons of scenes and not being on every day of the week.

I remember that it was a love scene and they were on a couch and the crazies were pissed they didn't get a bed! While the stories weren't  great...they did have the couple on a lot with the baby thing, Van at work, dealing with Dinah...and the Beth thing,,,which I have to say, did have potential if it was written more sensitively and if Beth was not another spoiler ready to drop her panties for any guy she could get. 

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by Mitch64

23 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

I remember that it was a love scene and they were on a couch and the crazies were pissed they didn't get a bed! While the stories weren't  great...they did have the couple on a lot with the baby thing, Van at work, dealing with Dinah...and the Beth thing,,,which I have to say, did have potential if it was written more sensitively and if Beth was not another spoiler ready to drop her panties for any guy she could get. 

They should have sent in sheets like the Jarlena fans at DAYS...

That story with Beth scheming and Vanessa freezing Matt out could have been worthwhile if pushed further, instead of just Beth saying how old Vanessa looked (which felt like Rauch working out grudges against Maeve Kinkead). I wonder if any of that story was originally meant to go to Dinah as they were always hinting in Wendy Moniz's run of going for Dinah/Matt. 

By the time they did it wasn't with a regime that had contempt for Vanessa (even if she was not a central character by that point) so it didn't bother me the way it would have in the mid/late '90s. We got to see a lot of believable anger from her instead of just "oh she's so boring and old, who can blame him."

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by DRW50