Members BadZoe Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I didn't mention her for a reason. She wrote one of my favorite episodes, "I Only Have Eyes for You". But when she never should have been made EP of Buffy, she's not that creative. Since the Discussion thread, has started going off episode talk, I thought it might be an opportunity to start discussing our favorite Villains over here. Mine are Sheila and David Kimball. What I liked most about Sheila was that Bill Bell could have her doing the most awful things, and yet sill she always came off as having some deep down hurt and motivation that caused her to act like she did. Most of her crimes were the result of being backed into a corner. You have to be a great villain to make a large number of people pick up an entirely new soap opera. Unfortunately Bradley Bell once again took one of his fathers great characters and massacred the [!@#$%^&*] out of her. LML didn't help by creating Pheila which I wish they would reverse on B&B. If they don't, it would be nice if KB came back as Sugar, last played by Robin Mattson, who had her face changed to switch places with Sheila. She could come on as a reformed former criminal and give KB a clean slate and new character. David Kimball was just awesome. Maybe it's because of my hatred for Nina, but I rooted for him. My favorite thing was when he went to the plastic surgeon to have his face changed into someone else only to have the doctor carve Killer into his forehead. AWESOME!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 David and Sheila were great characters. I can't say I rooted for them, but I enjoyed watching their schemes, even as I eventually wanted them to pay the piper. I also liked Veronica Landers. I thought she was very interesting, as was her romance with Miguel mixed with her madness. She also killed off the biggest dead weight on the show at the time, Josh Landers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I loved to hate David & Sheila, so in that way they were awesome villains. CE's Adam is the first & probably only time I have ever found myself rooting for a villain, which is all the more amazing because Adam is such a pig. Darn you, CE! I am not the sort of viewer who typically roots for villains. I do like anti-heroes, like Erica Kane and Carly Tenney, but I don't think they can rightly be described as villainous. My favorite villain on prime-time is Benjamin Linus on Lost, though, even then, I love it when Sayid or someone puts the hurt on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Sylph asked about the psychological explanation for Adam. I confess, I don't really know. Bad Zoe had the line of the night: I wrote to Damon Jacobs, who acts as "Soap Shrink" for Marlena Delacroix (e.g., here is his recent interview with James DePaiva). Damon runs his own blog, linked to his book, about the "Shouldless" philosophy. Anyway, I wrote to Damon and asked: Damon wrote back, and gave me permission to post his early thoughts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 But as cara mia pointed out, they have months to work on their 22-episode season (without having to deal with rewrites/shooting/actors/directors/etc), and almost a full month to write and perfect a script. As opposed to three-five days, which is how daytime works. ETA: I'm not saying they COULDN'T do it, just that we can't fairly judge based on the length of time they have to perfect the quality of their primetime work. In essence, daytime pretty much offers up as a "final draft" what most primetime writers consider to be a "first draft" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Does anyone think Nelson, when referring to Maria as the Obama of soaps, is making a thinly veiled reference to Steve Frame's acronym in his signature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Maria Arena Bell's lack of writing skills and the fact she wrote a few scripts and left daytime for 20 years is pretty apparent on this show. Her plotting style is atrocious, her storytelling is repetitive, and she doesn't know how to properly integrate and create new characters. Paring her with both Sheffer and Hamner was not a wise choice, IMO. Sheffer has plotting problems of his own, and Hamner's a second-rate primetime writer that specializes in episodic television that's writing for a daily soap. This really makes no sense. A lot was right between November 08 to February 09, but a lot of these problems were apparent even back then, and they're only getting worse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted June 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Also, does it make any sense that MAB's apparently out to correct the mistakes of LML's regime, yet she keeps LML's Co-HW, Scott Hamner, as one of her Co-HW's? And let's not forget that Hamner's probably LML's closest professional friendship. MAB lets all of this happen, the show right now feels like Latham's Y&R with a slower pace and less variety of stories and characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I could buy that Adam was born generally anti-social and nasty but that his love for his extraordinary mother and a steady diet of church & hard work on the farm kept him on the straight & narrow. His mother's death may been the equivalent of letting the genie out of the bottle. The problem for me is that this is not character-based writing but plot driven writing. There is no logical reason for Adam to pick on Ashley when Victor is in the same house! He's doing this just because (MY PREDICTION), TPTB want to set up a baby switch. If Adam were going to target an innocent woman as a way to express his wrath, it would be Heather or Victoria and not Ashley. Another thing, why is Ashley so nice? Why was the one who got Adam out of jail? If this were Victor's choice -- and why not, he may have felt guilt about Hope -- and Ashley were wary about Adam and her typical snooty self, then the whole story would play so much better, and Adam's lack of feeling towards Ashley would make sense. If Adam were doing this to NIKKI, I don't think anyone would be questioning the writing. But Ashley? No. Just not credible in any way. Even Ted Bundy "cared" about the people who worked alongside and warned his female co-workers to watch out for strangers. It's beyond monstrous for Adam to do this to Ashley when he knows how much she cares for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Exactly. No one ever seems to learn in daytime. Scott Hamner is a terrible storyteller. It was bad enough he and his murder mysteries mucked up PC, but also Y&R(with Carmen and JiMin). But even worse was his solo HW stint at PC. However short it was, it was terrible television. General Homicide was convoluted bullsh!t from the get-go. And LML had the nerve to actually brag about that story to the soap press when the Carmen Mesta murder happened!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I keep forgetting LML was headwriter of PC. At the time there was some stuff I liked but some I absolutely loathed, like the way they kept dragging Lucy down to promote Eve, especially that story where she drained the gas from Eve's car and Serena was blinded in a car crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 Let's not forget Race Car Bed Sex, Matt The Mancusi Mobster, Frank addicted to DL-56, Julie "Faking" a Pregnancy In Ferncliff, Lucy the AIDS advocate having unprotected sex with Scott in the Everglades, the list goes on... LML/Hamner defenders should be ashamed of themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 What was the race car bed? Karen and Joe? I don't remember that. Poor Frank. He was actually one of my favorite characters on the show, I don't know how he survived some of the trashy plots of that era, like spying on Karen with a telescope, planting panties in Joe's apartment. And then the story where he took in the big-busted ward...didn't he start sleeping with her? Lark, I think her name was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 I dont think Clem Ford is the problem. She seems to be playing Mac perfectly, as too how the character is written. The writing is the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted June 22, 2009 Members Share Posted June 22, 2009 She would be FANTASTIC. Well, i hope she would be anyways. Id love to see it. eta- http://boards.soapoperanetwork.com/index.p...st&p=637695 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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