Where is the fetus is he didn't burn it? I know people want to gloss over this but I don't see how one can.

A miscarriage does not necessarily produce an expelled fetus, does it? Not trying to gloss it over, but isn't that scientific fact?

Sylph, on a show with Clementine Ford, Eva Marcille, Tammin Sursok, etc, I would never say that MM sucks.

Not as an actor. I just don't see him as a fit for Adam. Fake Adam? Yes. Real Adam? No.

I do am not warm to what you call his eager playing of the role BUT I believe he is being directed this way and he was hired PRECISELY because this what MAB wants. He is playing the role as written -- more mentally unhinged, less morally depraved -- and there's a lightness to his finished product. It even made me a chuckle a few times. This is how MAB sees Adam, a character were supposed to laugh at and be shocked by. Not one were supposed to care about. Then again, I don't think MAB thinks we're supposed to care about ANY of the characters. What she's done to Victoria, Nick, Sharon, Jack, etc. is a travesty.

I meant, I can see the stuff from real life (Engen fiasco and him jumpin on board in a record time) clearly show in his performances. As if he's saying to the viewers in-the-know: Wow, I so love this, I so love I got this, blah, blah. It totally distracts me, I can see his satisfaction of being given the job, real life interferes with the role he's supposed to be playing.

Not as an actor. I just don't see him as a fit for Adam. Fake Adam? Yes. Real Adam? No.

Oh, ok... that makes me feel better.

That monologue was atrocious.

It's interesting that people complain that the writer's aren't showing us the character's motivations. Then when they do, it gets bashed as well. There's obviously no pleasing some people.

I so agree with your post. And please don't leave... just keep talkin, we need you here. I don't think Patty Jane intended to Kill Summer, either. I'm sure if she intended tha,t she would have FED the child peanuts, and not just kissed her. She proabably thought the kiss would just make her "sick" but nothing life threatening. We'll see if Patty Jane shows any remorse once she finds out how serious Summer's condition is. I think me might know on Monday's eppy. I think Muhney is doing fine... but even if he wasn't, I think pretty tacky to say an actor "sucks" after only 2 episodes... actors need to be given a fighting chance. Saying you don't like the first impression... FINE. But please.

Good point! :-)

It's interesting that people complain that the writer's aren't showing us the character's motivations. Then when they do, it gets bashed as well. There's obviously no pleasing some people.

I think people wanted the motivations months ago. For them to come long after the fact, and for them to make little sense compared to his actions (he says he regrets Ashley's suffering, when they repeatedly showed Adam smirking and almost giddy about the torment he was putting her through), it doesn't work as well.

A miscarriage does not necessarily produce an expelled fetus, does it? Not trying to gloss it over, but isn't that scientific fact?

Ashley either expelled the fetus & Adam burned it OR Ashley is carrying a dead fetus (HUGE health risk). Either way, Adam comes out evil. It's is logical to assume that out of both terrible scenarios, we are dealing with the former because of ED's comments and Dr. Taylor's apparent unconcern that she's at risk for some type of toxic shock.

I meant, I can see the stuff from real life (Engen fiasco and him jumpin on board in a record time) clearly show in his performances. As if he's saying to the viewers in-the-know: Wow, I so love this, I so love I got this, blah, blah. It totally distracts me, I can see his satisfaction of being given the job, real life interferes with the role he's supposed to be playing.

I've seen him on Veronica Mars. This is MM's style. He's animated and slightly campy (not meant as an insult -- it's a perfectly valid approach to the material). He's not your guy if you want understated naturalism, but that's fine because that's not what MAB wants. Clearly this more animated style is what they're looking for. This is MAB's vision for the character and it is in line with her vision of the show. In the long run, I think the recast will work out because too many fans (like me) were upset to see an inherently sympathetic Adam become do depraved and demonic. Now, with a fresh face with a more theatrical & therefore distancing style, he can be more of a fun villain like David Kimble or Sheila Carter and we can enjoy his downfall without any mixed feelings. MM's style is VERY similar to Stacey Haiduk's actually. With the recast, I really see Adam & Mary Jane now as two peas in a psychotic pod, very cut from the same cloth.

I think people wanted the motivations months ago. For them to come long after the fact, and for them to make little sense compared to his actions (he says he regrets Ashley's suffering, when they repeatedly showed Adam smirking and almost giddy about the torment he was putting her through), it doesn't work as well.

Carl, I think this was a factor in CE's quitting/the recast/MM's hiring. CE choose to emphasize the sadism in Adam, not the insanity. With the monologue & the recast, they can make Adam less evil & more crazy. I think we're being set up for the classic brain tumor defense!

Edited June 27, 200916 yr by cara mia

I think people wanted the motivations months ago. For them to come long after the fact, and for them to make little sense compared to his actions (he says he regrets Ashley's suffering, when they repeatedly showed Adam smirking and almost giddy about the torment he was putting her through), it doesn't work as well.

And also a monologue is the worst way to give someone a motivation. Is called telling instead of showing.

Nothing would make me happier than to find out when this is all over and Adam's exposed that he buried the baby, made a grave. Off-camera. So Ashley can have her good-bye.

ETA: Bad choice of words. A lot of things would make me happier. LOL! I'm just saying if my choices are A ) Ashley carrying a dead baby, or B ) Adam burnt the baby, I choose C ) He buried it off-camera with a marker so Ashley/Victor have a final resting place for her.

When would he have had time to do this? Nikki was pounding at the door, and Adam was in a rush to clean things up. I think these writers want us to accept that this fetus just disappeared and that Ashley is no longer carrying around her dead baby, but Adam didn't dispose of the fetus in the towel which by the way Nikki handled.

We are supposed to be these masses of viewers who buy anything they dole out for shock and drama. Could they do what you suggest now that they realize we are not idiots but many of us are women who understand how miscarriages work? Sure, but it would be just like the scene of Adam confiding in Hope's picture admitting he never wanted Ashley to lose her baby. Too late to mean anything.

Edited June 27, 200916 yr by lmfan

I guess we'll see how it happens. If I were writing this show, this is how I would ahve played this out:

1: in the last 3 months, take about half the time the scoobies took up to develop Rafe, and have us care baout him and root form him.

2: Have things NOW play out just exactly as they are.

3: In a couple weeks, have Heather AND Victor walk in on Adam and Rafe while they are in the MIDDLE of the deed. Rafe can hide under the covers... and Heather will scream, cry, be upset, march over to the bed... screaming... "Who IS SHE??!!! WHO IS SHE!!??" and then pull the covers back to reveal Rafe with nothing but his hands covering his goodies. And THEN cut to VICTOR'S EXPRESSION. Adam can make this big argument telling Vic... "you didn't want me to lock my door, well, this is what you get!" or soemthing to that effect.

4: A few days after that, while Adam is in the bathroom "post-coital" taking a shower... Rafe snoops and lays his hands on the evidence he needs to clear Estella (Rafe would have been shown snooping in previous eppies)

5: Rafe will then go to a hurt and dismissive Heather, and turn in the evidence he has found, and suddenly, the thirst for revenge of a woman scorned will rear it's ugly head, and Rafe and Heather join forces to bring Adam to jusitce. He is arrested, and the climax of the SL has a scene reminiscint of the end of the Kay/Marge SL where Katherine kicks Clint in the balls... in which Rafe confronts Adam while in handcuffs, and tells him, "What? You thought I cared about you? You thought I was going to be another one of your pathetic victims? you thought you were using me? No way Adam... the joke's on YOU... you were MY bitch!"

So that, to me, is what a classic Y&R Adam/Rafe SL would look like.

This would have been a good story. Still would have sacrificiced Adam, but I don't see the writers getting out of that at this point without sending him offscreen for awhile ala Michael Baldwin.

You see you came up with this story in how long? You thought of the beats of the story and what would make good soap opera drama. So why can't these professional writers do the same thing? I know it isn't easy cranking out so much story day after day, but come on it shouldn't be as difficult as they are making it look now.

It's interesting that people complain that the writer's aren't showing us the character's motivations. Then when they do, it gets bashed as well. There's obviously no pleasing some people.

Greg, the hurt puppy strategy doesn't work on B!tch Board Deluxe v3.0, such as SON. We all love SON 'cause people will accept no sh!t from soaps or other people. How many participants from this thread threatened to go only to come back as if nothing? Hysterical.

I've seen him on Veronica Mars. This is MM's style. He's animated and slightly campy (not meant as an insult -- it's a perfectly valid approach to the material). He's not your guy if you want understated naturalism, but that's fine because that's not what MAB wants. Clearly this more animated style is what they're looking for. This is MAB's vision for the character and it is in line with her vision of the show. In the long run, I think the recast will work out because too many fans (like me) were upset to see an inherently sympathetic Adam become do depraved and demonic. Now, with a fresh face with a more theatrical & therefore distancing style, he can be more of a fun villain like David Kimble or Sheila Carter and we can enjoy his downfall without any mixed feelings. MM's style is VERY similar to Stacey Haiduk's actually. With the recast, I really see Adam & Mary Jane now as two peas in a psychotic pod, very cut from the same cloth.

Yes, I agree and it fits very well with a possible impostor story.

Greg, the hurt puppy strategy doesn't work on B!tch Board Deluxe v3.0, such as SON. We all love SON 'cause people will accept no sh!t from soaps or other people. How many participants from this thread threatened to go only to come back as if nothing? Hysterical.

Yes, I agree and it fits very well with a possible impostor story.

Whatever

What's the point of having two Y&R threads when the same sh-t is posted in both?

Sorry, but you don't see the other soaps doing that for the PROS/CONS of their soaps. Shouldn't there just be one central thread in the Love/Hate section instead of this stupidity?

Carl, I think this was a factor in CE's quitting/the recast/MM's hiring. CE choose to emphasize the sadism in Adam, not the insanity. With the monologue & the recast, they can make Adam less evil & more crazy. I think we're being set up for the classic brain tumor defense!

I thought the monologue was a belated attempt to try to reestablish the idea of Adam being weak and pathetic. Ever since Sabrina's murder last year, they have repeatedly written Adam as being weak, not knowing what he's doing, being in denial. I think that's supposed to be the main thrust of this story -- Adam being so pathetic that he has now targeted a woman and her baby, and is debasing himself with a man in order to cover up his lies. This started to lose focus because the story became more about constant sadism, attempts at shocking the viewers, and Adam became a bystander, the person who helped to facilitate the horrors, the plot device to make everyone else in the story stupid. They may be trying to pull the curtain closed again so viewers will be less focused on why the show is constantly peddling this nasty stuff, and more focused on seeing Adam as a crazy loser.

What's the point of having two Y&R threads when the same sh-t is posted in both?

Sorry, but you don't see the other soaps doing that for the PROS/CONS of their soaps. Shouldn't there just be one central thread in the Love/Hate section instead of this stupidity?

ICAM. :-)

Sure, but it would be just like the scene of Adam confiding in Hope's picture admitting he never wanted Ashley to lose her baby. Too late to mean anything.

I think that scene made sense... aren't you watching this show? Engen's adam DID try to catch her as she fell, after she fell.. he ran down the stairs, and said... "Oh God... what have I done!" Just how do those two scenes not go together to show the viewer that while he was trying to drive Ashley to the nuthouse, his machinations went too far, and did more harm than he intended.