You guys just wait until those post-analog numbers come in!

Sadly, CBS is gonna tank.

You are right, but MAB, Hamner and Rauch all are helping stir that pot.

Without a doubt. Them, Hogan, and others...

I stopped watching Y&R because it is a hot mess. I don't blame Hogan because I stuck with him throughout his ATWT years. Not even my love for Chloe can get me to watch Y&R any more. I'm done. Right now Days is the only soap I watch straight through. I ff through GH and catch bits of OLTL and AMC on SoapNet.

I wish you posted in the days discussion more!

Totally agree about Days. I'm really enjoying the show. It's just pure unpretentious soapy fun. The budget cuts have actually helped the show, because they've made for a tighter canvass. It's a very tightly run ship, and that really comes through. Y&R is falling apart. It's just all plot, plot, plot. In watching yesterday's scenes between Jill, Kay and Nina, I couldn't help but think something is missing. Here are three legacy characters with tons and tons of history between them, but none of that was being telegraphed in their scenes. The only thing that came through was plot, which goes against the show's grain. Of course it doesn't help that Jeanne Cooper seems off her mark these days, almost as if she's phoning it in. The Adam gaslighting thing is absurb, Sharon/Nick/Jack/Sharon is the same old, same old, and that art theft storyline is unwatchable. Was it MAB who decried the horrid Brad/George Nazi storyline? If so, given what's she's been spewing out lately, she has no right to criticize anything. The ABC shows are so sad. I still find AMC mostly unwatchable. Like Y&R, it's all plot, plot, plot, but without the production values and actors to make it watchable. I don't think ATWT and GL are as bad as people are saying. I just think their bad ratings are mostly the result of the whole CBS lineup tanking.

You have to be kidding me about ATWT and GL. And to say Jeanne Cooper is phoning it in?? Um....say what?

This whole post stinks of Christopher Goutman. I have wondered for some time if you are Chris Goutman.

GL and ATWT suck that's why they are in the toilet.

Edited June 19, 200916 yr by Ruxton Hills

You have to be kidding me about ATWT and GL. And to say Jeanne Cooper is phoning it in?? Um....say what?

This whole post stinks of Christopher Goutman. I have wondered for some time if you are Chris Goutman.

GL and ATWT suck that's why they are in the toilet.

LOL, I'm not Chris Goutman. ATWT has never particularly been my cup of tea, even during the Marland years, but I've always admired the naturalistic feel of the show, in terms of the scene writing and actors they hire. More than any other show, it goes out of its way to hire real-looking actors, for the most part, which I think enriches the show. It's certainly not a great show right now, but it's hardly terrible. Take a peek at any of the ABC shows, and you'll see what "terrible" really is. I would bet the farm that people are not deserting this show because of the storytelling; its losses are most likely the result of the lead-in shows tanking. It's a trickle-down effect. By the way, not necessarily to defend Goutman, but he can't have an smooth job. It really can't be easy producing a show on a threadbare budget, desperately trying to appeal to a young audience while trying to minimally alienate your long-term viewers. That's not an easy balance to maintain. As for Passanante, who knows how the budget impacts her ability to write for certain actors or how stories flow. I just know I wouldn't want their jobs in this economic climate.

B&B

Tuesday: 2.1/2,849,000

Wednesday: 2.2/2,878,000

DAYS

Tuesday: 2.1/2,861,000

Wednesday: 2.3/2,994,000

Days Beat B&B 2 days this week in total viewers. When last did that happen? During the SSK s/l I'd guess.

I don't expect Days to maintain a long term lead over B&B as the show is getting weak again after a good 4 month run. Unless of course B&B implodes.

Goutman and Pissanante - I think the ratings for ATWT could go to zero, and these two would still have their jobs.

When is the last time a plot line on ATWT make an ounce of fXXXXXg sense - or lasted more than 3 episodes. I have never seen writing this bad.

I predict it will fall ever further next week, this week has been horrible.

Edited June 19, 200916 yr by tgilbrea69

Days Beat B&B 2 days this week in total viewers. When last did that happen? During the SSK s/l I'd guess.

I don't expect Days to maintain a long term lead over B&B as the show is getting weak again after a good 4 month run. Unless of course B&B implodes.

But I think B&B is imploding (i.e., weak foundation), and Days is thriving...I think the rank orders about to flip. And I think that is a wonderful thing, because Days offers the perfect template for how to fix B&B (dial back the ridiculous, pare down the canvas, add some depth to stories, have characters behave consistently, use a mix of veterans while working on newbies).

But I think B&B is imploding (i.e., weak foundation), and Days is thriving...I think the rank orders about to flip. And I think that is a wonderful thing, because Days offers the perfect template for how to fix B&B (dial back the ridiculous, pare down the canvas, add some depth to stories, have characters behave consistently, use a mix of veterans while working on newbies).

B&B's sister soap could also stand to adopt something of a similar nature. Especially dialing down the ridiculous and paring down the canvas.

ATWT has never particularly been my cup of tea, even during the Marland years, but I've always admired the naturalistic feel of the show, in terms of the scene writing and actors they hire.

Why?

Goutman and Pissanante - I think the ratings for ATWT could go to zero, and these two would still have their jobs.

When is the last time a plot line on ATWT make an ounce of fXXXXXg sense - or lasted more than 3 episodes. I have never seen writing this bad.

I predict it will fall ever further next week, this week has been horrible.

Never....either the story last 3 episodes or it goes on and on and on and completely sucks. It really is stupid that Goutman and Pissant have a job at ATWT right now. It is insane!!

Edited June 19, 200916 yr by Ruxton Hills

Well I try to never be one that leaves shows based on writers and things like that. I usually always try to remain faithful to a show esp. shows I have watched a long time.

I quit watching Days once before when the youth craze hit. It was due then to the big youth craze just did nothing for me.

The only other time I quit due to writing was when McTavish did so much damage to AMC.

Other times I just stick in there and complain and go forth.

What I find funny is that all 3 of the other times I have quit watching shows is when Hogan Sheffer has been involved. When he first came to ATWT, I jumped on the Hogan bandwagon and I loved it. Then slowly I saw the damage that man did to the show. Much of what is wrong with ATWT goes all the way back to the damage he did to the show. All of the problems today stem from him and his protege Jean Passanante. I quit watching while he was there, came back when he left, and have not watched but parts of about 7 episodes in over a year.

And then when he came to Days I was so mad when I found out. I tried to give him a chance, but he ruined DAys for me. And I quit again, but this time unlike when I quit before Hogan took the love I had for Days away. And even though now I am watching again, I just don't have the attachment I always had. Something that for so many years was must see for me, just no longer is.

And now I find myself in the same boat with Y&R. I have watched Y&R since day 1. I stuck with it through the transition from Brooks to Abbott, through the awful tenure of Jack Smith and then Latham, and I had such high hopes for Y&R until recently. And now I am disgusted with the show. There are so many things I don't like but the chief being the Phillip thing. And sorry but that is a sore issue for me. I am glad that some of you can be happy about it. It's not the rewrite of a certain part of the story that I have a problem with but it is seeing where the story is going. It is the biggest issue for me but there are so many others. The other big thing being that I don't see a whole lot of character stuff with MAB anymore. It all seems to be one plot point to the next. Sure she has restored a few things, but lately I just don't see the greatness that I saw a few months ago. I don't know how much of this has to do with Hogan or even if any has to do with it.

But again for a third time I find myself giving up a show I love and once again he is there.

This is very well said. He rots every show he touches. I don't know why he keeps getting hired.

It's hard to know sometimes why ratings go up or down. Personally, I find that I am still watching Y&R but caring less about the characters. They have become so cartoonish I cannot connect with them.

Much of what is wrong with ATWT goes all the way back to the damage he did to the show. All of the problems today stem from him and his protege Jean Passanante.

I wouldn't call JP Sheffer's "protege". His successor, sure. But JP had her hands on soaps both as a network executive AND as a head writer for about a decade before Sheffer even entered the genre.

I wouldn't call JP Sheffer's "protege". His successor, sure. But JP had her hands on soaps both as a network executive AND as a head writer for about a decade before Sheffer even entered the genre.

She became his protege at ATWT though. To me she changed her style and all and has kept the same trends going that she learned while working under him after she came over from AW.

It is very much the same way that Pat Falken Smith - a writer I loved until she went to work with Gloria Monty. I didn't hate her after that but the great writing she did at Days and learned to do under Bill Bell was all thrown out. Instead of writing good old psychological drama like she did for years on Days she changed completely to the action adventure stuff and I never cared much for her at all.

So I think any writer can become a protege of a new writer or producer no longer how long they have been in the business. Any time they work under them and change the way they writer or do things - then they became a protege of that person.

I actually enjoyed JP at AMC and AW. I have not liked much of anything she has done at ATWT.

I gotta go with brimike on this. I wouldn't call JP Hogan's protege.

Protege: a person under the patronage, protection, or care of someone interested in his or her career or welfare

Doesn't sound like a JP/Hogan relationship to me.