Members Sylph Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 Jean Passanante is not Hogan's protégé. But Meg Kelly kind of qualifies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ann_SS Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 I don't think that I agree. IMO, ATWT changed under JP. She returned ATWT its roots focus on family. She established the Munson/Steinbecks as the central family and wrote more connections between family members. I think viewers stuck with the show because it felt familiar. I hated ATWT under her and Goutman from jump and missed Hogan almost immediately. Despite his flaws (and there were many), I preferred Hogan's storytelling style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 I wouldn't argue that. JP's been telling the same kinds of stories for years before Hogan. He had zero influence on her - if anything, she influenced him, and not for the better. Libidozone, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 Hogan's storytelling style at ATWT was often about horrible things happening to women and/or children, women who exist only for marriage and babies and what a man wants, cold, unpleasant worlds without family or friends, lack of respect for history or consistent characterization, and sleazy, misogynistic, completely callous leading men peddled as the next big thing. This seems to carry through to all his shows. I'm still amazed at how he completely butchered Craig Montgomery. He also seems to have no idea of how to actually pace or tell any type of soap story. It's always stunt, then periods of malaise, then he gets bored and goes on to the next stunt. I don't know who influenced who in JP/Hogan, because I never cared for her work on AMC (where we got great moments like Gillian being shot in the head and people literally kicking down the hospital door to take out her heart), but I think Hogan has his own personal ugly style of writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cara mia Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 I've come around to Carl's POV about Hogan being a misogynist. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt but what sealed it for me was Y&R making Dr. Taylor an ob-gyn who sexually molests his patients at their most vulnerable. There are countless other crimes Taylor could have committed so that Adam was able to blackmail him. Why did the writers choose this one? And now he is crazy and vulnerable Ashley's doctor? Considering all the other abuse Ashley is taking, this is just misogyny for misogyny's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 Libidozone ruled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tgilbrea69 Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 Are there any online petitions out there (that might actually make a difference) about removing Goutman and Pissanante from ATWT? I would sign it. I feel like I would like to do something to give back to the soap I have watched since the mid eighties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 I do remember enjoying that mess where Hayley "killed" Arlene and then began to believe she was Arlene. Wasn't that also when Ryan acted like a big manslut (more than usual) at the yacht party. Mindless slut is what Ryan should always be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted June 20, 2009 Members Share Posted June 20, 2009 I know this is more about primetime shows, but if it is this bad so far for primetime, daytime can't be fairing too well either. I sure hate to see budgets cut more for all the shows. http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/t...iD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU Advertisers aren't lining up for TV's fall lineups Last update: June 18, 2009 - 8:27 PM HOLLYWOOD - June is typically the time of year when the broadcast networks ring up billions of dollars in commercial sales for the coming television season. But this hasn't been a typical year. Declining audiences, an extremely fragile economy and bankruptcy filings by cash-strapped U.S. automakers -- traditionally among the biggest TV advertisers -- have made it more difficult for network advertising executives to sell commercial time this spring. A month after unveiling their new fall shows as bait, the networks still haven't hooked any big-fish advertisers. Network executives declined to discuss it at length this week, but acknowledged that buying hasn't begun. In recent years, ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and the CW by mid-June had sold the bulk of their commercial time for the season that begins in September. Last June, the networks wrote more than $9 billion in prime-time advertising commitments within a few days. "It's definitely a different atmosphere than what we are used to," said Andrew Donchin, a major ad buyer with Carat. "It's much more of a buyers' market. And there is more pressure on the ad agencies this year to realize greater value for their clients." In preliminary negotiations, advertisers have demanded that the networks slash their rates by as much as 15 percent compared to last year, according to people familiar with the discussions. Network executives have balked, hoping to hold the line on last year's prices. The stalemate is responsible for delaying the kick-off of the important market known as the "upfront." Networks typically sell as much as 80 percent of their commercial inventory for the coming year in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ann_SS Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 Yikes. The networks are on the ropes with their prime time ad revenue. It has got to be worse for daytime shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 Yeah, but I don't understand why everyone assumes this is Sheffer. Could it not be MAB? She approves everything. Chris Goutman was heading things up at ATWT when Sheffer was there, and the show was JUST as misogynistic after Sheffer left. He seems to get the brunt of this, and I'll never understand why. The boards tend to have this all-knowing authority that it must be one person, but it baffles me how that's known. I'm not saying the guy's perfect, but somehow I think if you were to take him out of the equation, not much would change. This is scary as hell. Wow. Thanks for posting it, Steve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 That's why I think that Pass was influenced a lot by Sheffer. Sure she had some bad stories but her AW and AMC weren't as mysoginistic as her ATWT is. And ATWT was not mysoginistic until Sheffer got there. I do agree that part of this could be MAB who knows. I mean Y&R had started on the mysoginistic route even before they got there but not as much as it is now. To me it started with the bumping up of Victor even more of a mysoginist than he ever was. He really turned that way when Latham got hold of him - super mysoginist. That is where I think the problem is in writing Nikki and Victoria more than even Amelia Heinle's portrayal of Victoria. I have seen Amelia Heinle on Loving and the girl could play feisty better than anyone. I just think they are writing Victoria to be inferior to the men in her life esp. her father. And my biggest fear is that Y&R is getting ready to move into another form of mysogyny. I know that the possible story for Rafe/Adam is a new twist for daytime. But if goes the way I think it is going to go - it is just going to be another way for the macho straight man to be mysogynistic on the soaps. Let's give viewers waht they want and this time let's don't pick on women but now lets pick on the gays. That is my fear with the story. Even though it is possibly going to be innovative - in the end I think it is just going to be another mysogynistic turn for daytime's straight men. And just put another "gender" under their thumb or inferior to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ann_SS Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 ITA. I think it is part of the Bells are gods attitude that some Y&R fans have so they blame everyone, but MAB for the crap on the screen and the turmoil behind the scenes. Sheffer, Rauch and Hamner all work for MAB so she is responsible for the misogyny on Y&R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brimike Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 True, but that's why I put more of the blame on Goutman than on Sheffer. I find it easier to believe that Goutman is consistently misogynistic than to believe Sheffer had such an influence on a 10-year soap writer veteran in two years time they worked together. Goutman's the common denominator in both regimes, so that's the only basis I'm using for my speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted June 21, 2009 Members Share Posted June 21, 2009 How about a new concept for ya all: they are all guilty. All. They received millions and refused to let go of them because the show was misogynistic. Maria Arena, Hogan Sheffer, Scott Hamner, Christopher Goutman... All of them. What a fun (read: dull as dishwater) discussion — which HW is more misogynistic than the other... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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