Oh don't get me wrong I'm sure MAB oversees all ideas and ideals before even applying it as a directive to the stories but if that is correct maybe unfortunately for her she's giving these two way too much credit. Especially who-ever would be holding reigns now- if and only if my theory is correct of course

Edited June 9, 200916 yr by classicmoment

I still stick by my theory, even with the risk of being completly wrong. These three are taking turns in the driver's seat and this is mostly SH's take on things we are experiencing. I don't know it is just a difference from how the writing style and approach was from November to Feb and then a bit different from Feb to May and then now we have May til now, there are significant differences. Febuary /March seemed so Hogan-esque to me and presently I feel this is Hamner's style. Hogan has an aggressive way of hitting at character's compulsions in excess, the whole Sharon promiscuity and Phyllis' 'over the edge antics' among other things just screams him. Now we have the mystery/Goth angle with more plot driven approaches Hamner's signature

I've started to think the same.

This is my problem with the whole Adam gaslighting story. They want us to believe that Adam doesn't really want to hurt Ashley just Victor and Jack? Yet sometimes Adam seems gleeful over what he is doing to Ashley and at times guilty. I really don't get Adam's motivation in going this far. It's not like Victor wouldn't have a replacement for Ashley in six months.

It was bad enough we had to buy skipping some meals would make him lose weight in his ankle and that apparently there are no surveilance cameras at the ranch, but we also have to believe that a man with limited sight could climb in and out of windows, never seen by anyone and even able to hitch a ride to town to terrorize Ashley in the hospital with the person who must be getting him the botox. By the way, how much sight is lost with the botox injections? That seems to change from one show to the next.

But now, apparently Ashley has miscarried. So what happened to the fetus, the bleeding and cramping associated with a miscarriage, and the fact that Ashley could die from an infection if she does not receive some medical care? And yet we should sympathize with Adam because he didn't really want Ashley to fall. What did he expect to happen confronting her on a dark stairway dressed as Sabrina? Now he happens to know a doctor who he can blackmail with information provided from his friend with benefits that we saw on maybe three shows before she was hacked up and buried under Nikki's horse.

Ok, so now we have a women suffering a miscarriage, maybe carrying a dead fetus inside herself, being treated by a doctor who sexually assaulted his female patients. Someone is hitting on all the nightmares of women. What's next, cutting open Sharon's stomach to steal her baby.

This story is so contrived even if it is creepy. Now as some have speculated how is Adam going to convince Ashley that she is still pregnant. She had a small baby bump. And is Sharon's pregnancy going to be SORASed so that they can do a baby switch. I hope not because that would make no sense. Not that this story makes much sense. If they wanted to do that they should have waited for Ashley to lose the baby further along.

I am watching this Adam story and agree it is creepy, but it is also like watching a train wreck.

Edited June 9, 200916 yr by lmfan

What's next, cutting open Sharon's stomach to steal her baby.

Don't give MAB and her team any ideas, lmfan.

How sad is it that I can see them going that far?

Though, I'm sure many here would like that or rationalize it.

I could argue that you can't be "objective" about any merits. But, anyway. You say MAB better than Bell? On what exactly? I'm really curious.

Actually, by "compare favorably", I meant "it gets close" not "it exceeds". But if I think about the period -- really from August 2008 -- there have been so many stupendous moments, character moments, stories. I'm not saying everything was great. No way! For example, the Kay-Marge greatness (e.g., funeral) descended into Clint Radisson and the Chipmunk.

I don't think the trick is to duplicate Bill Bell. I think -- and this is what the team is achieving, IMO -- is to write a modern soap, with modern conventions, but remain true to the characters, history and situation of Genoa City. I personally feel that is being done.

And 79 sucked!

Eh, no

Well, the 60 minute Y&R was only different from the 30 minute in that some characters were phased out, and other brought in, everything else stayed the same. And there's plenty more evidence than just 1979. Like Mark pointed out, the dark SL's continued into 1980 with Victor holding Michael Scott hostage in the basement of the ranch, and then Julia helping him escape, and losing her baby on the same staircase... then in 1981, you had the VERY creepy (And Melody Thomas' favorite) "Crazy Edward" SL, this neighbor of Nikki's who bcame obsessed with her, and sat around and talked to an urn of his mother's ashes all day, all culimnating with him setting their apartment building on fire after he tried to rape Nikki and she rebuffed him, throwing his mother's ashes all over him and bolting from the building. And we also had the Nick Reed SL during this period, where he tried again to sexually assault Nikki and she killed him (I think with a lamp over the head) . You can even carry it into 1984 with Eve Howard and the poisoning of Victor, Eve was VERY dark and creepy (Margret Mason was BRILLIANT) But going back even farther, 1975/76 had MANY dark SL's, not so criminal, but very depressing and psychologically disturbing. Jennifer Brooks cancer diagnosis, the AMAZING Bill Foster euthanasia SL, Kay and her driving Phillip off the cliff, and the twisted one was Leslie's mental breakdown, and her being in an institution where none of her family knew where she was, and was being abused by other patients, I still picture Janice Lynde with that unwashed hair struggling with another "patient" over an orange, cause everyone else stole the rest of her food, and was NOT going to let them get what little was left. I would cry over that. (But I was also only 7 at the time, and it was scary for me) So, I've made my points, and I'm going to try to get back to teh episode discussion. Whoever said Kevin Schmidt should feature more prominently in the Nick/Phyllis/Sharon SL is RIGHT ON, I agree totally.

Janice Lynde crazy

Steady Eddy! That's what we called him in Toronto! I remember he had Nikki captured, and he was taking her home to meet mother. Nikki was actually hopeful mother might help free her. But then Eddy lead her into a cobweb-filled room, with a shrine to an urn. And Nikki was introduced to the urn.

"Your mother? THIS is your mother?" wailed Nikki. Meanwhile Eddy had put a fireplace poker to heat in the fireplace. He turned to promiscuous stripper Nikki and said, brandishing the hot poker, "I'm going to purify you, Nikki".

Edward had a bomb, as I recall. Nikki broke away after flinging his mother's ashes in Edward's face, causing him to crumple and scream. As Nikki was trying to escape, Paul/Danny/Jonas broke in and helped her. Then the apartment (I actually remembered house next to Nikki's) exploded, and Edward perished.

Sure 1979 sucked. And I guess 1981 did too? Yup. Okay! All I can is that I and many others still remember these entertaining, twisted, creepy, exciting days. And for the first time since this era, I feel Y&R has recaptured some of this fun.

This is my problem with the whole Adam gaslighting story. They want us to believe that Adam doesn't really want to hurt Ashley just Victor and Jack? Yet sometimes Adam seems gleeful over what he is doing to Ashley and at times guilty. I really don't get Adam's motivation in going this far. It's not like Victor wouldn't have a replacement for Ashley in six months.

LOL, I guess I'll rationalize these aspects, at least.

Adam is a punk. And he tried to go directly after Victor and Jack before and failed miserably. For now, this is his most effective mode of comeuppance.

It was bad enough we had to buy skipping some meals would make him lose weight in his ankle and that apparently there are no surveilance cameras at the ranch, but we also have to believe that a man with limited sight could climb in and out of windows, never seen by anyone and even able to hitch a ride to town to terrorize Ashley in the hospital with the person who must be getting him the botox. By the way, how much sight is lost with the botox injections? That seems to change from one show to the next.

He must've stopped injecting himself at this point. There's no way he'd be able to pull off that stunt where he dressed as Sabrina walking around in the dark. In fact, I've noticed now when he spies on people via his laptop, he doesn't squint at the screen as he used to. And how would he have seen the blood on the floor, in the dark, to wipe it up? If these are missteps, they're really big ones. Way too obvious.

But now, apparently Ashley has miscarried. So what happened to the fetus, the bleeding and cramping associated with a miscarriage, and the fact that Ashley could die from an infection if she does not receive some medical care? And yet we should sympathize with Adam because he didn't really want Ashley to fall. What did he expect to happen confronting her on a dark stairway dressed as Sabrina? Now he happens to know a doctor who he can blackmail with information provided from his friend with benefits that we saw on maybe three shows before she was hacked up and buried under Nikki's horse.

Ok, so now we have a women suffering a miscarriage, maybe carrying a dead fetus inside herself, being treated by a doctor who sexually assaulted his female patients. Someone is hitting on all the nightmares of women. What's next, cutting open Sharon's stomach to steal her baby.

I never sympathized with Adam. Ever. He needs to pay. I'll always be on Victor's side. Sue me LOL. The only reason why we're seeing Adam's reactions to Ashley's suffering is so that he doesn't become the boring one-dimensional villain. I like that he feels slight remorse and can go right into lying to Nikki/Ashley and blackmailing the doc.

I do agree with you and the fact that Ashley has a dead fetus inside of her and the ramifications of that are being glossed over. I was shocked today when I heard that she miscarried because it's just so outlandish to me that she'd fall, consider it a nightmare, and believe everything Adam is telling her. I mean, call your goddamn brother, woman!!!

I don't think the trick is to duplicate Bill Bell. I think -- and this is what the team is achieving, IMO -- is to write a modern soap, with modern conventions, but remain true to the characters, history and situation of Genoa City. I personally feel that is being done.

What modern soap is this? Nothing on this show is unique or innovative and nothing that hasn't been done before and done better. If you consider drama about women who think their inferior without a man contemporary, return from the stories contemporary, gaslighting contemporary, etc, but I don't.

I think many characters are being butchered, so I don't know how true they're being written. I can hardly look at Neil, Nick, Phyllis, Sharon, Jack, Ashley, Jill, and many others with a straight face anymore. They've all descended into being poorly defined and their integrity has somehow been taken away from them. Truly shells of who they used to be.

As for respect for history, how quickly we forget the vasectomy fiasco of a year ago. Just today too, Adam said he had gotten letters and discussed with Skye the unethical behavior of this doctor who allegedly coerced her and sexually assaulted her. However, that wasn't even mildly implied when we met Skye for a few episodes last year, and I think it would be too big a thing for Adam and Skye to just brush under the rug. Is Phillip's return from the dead also a respect to history when we saw him die in his hospital bed?

Edited June 10, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

LOL, I guess I'll rationalize these aspects, at least.

Adam is a punk. And he tried to go directly after Victor and Jack before and failed miserably. For now, this is his most effective mode of comeuppance.

He must've stopped injecting himself at this point. There's no way he'd be able to pull off that stunt where he dressed as Sabrina walking around in the dark. In fact, I've noticed now when he spies on people via his laptop, he doesn't squint at the screen as he used to. And how would he have seen the blood on the floor, in the dark, to wipe it up? If these are missteps, they're really big ones. Way too obvious.

I never sympathized with Adam. Ever. He needs to pay. I'll always be on Victor's side. Sue me LOL. The only reason why we're seeing Adam's reactions to Ashley's suffering is so that he doesn't become the boring one-dimensional villain. I like that he feels slight remorse and can go right into lying to Nikki/Ashley and blackmailing the doc.

I do agree with you and the fact that Ashley has a dead fetus inside of her and the ramifications of that are being glossed over. I was shocked today when I heard that she miscarried because it's just so outlandish to me that she'd fall, consider it a nightmare, and believe everything Adam is telling her. I mean, call your goddamn brother, woman!!!

Her outright refusing to listen to Jack about going with him and Olivia obstinately pushing therapy on her and/or Ashley pushing Olivia away so much purely plot driven. Today in the scene before Nikki and the doctor came in where it was Adam standing in the living room with Ashley sitting I didn't see him faking his blindness at that point he was looking right at her or was it just me? Many holes in this story and I think the show and CE made a booboo there

Edited June 10, 200916 yr by classicmoment

Her outright refusing to listen to Jack about going with him and Olivia obstinately pushing therapy on her and/or Ashley pushing Olivia away so much purely plot driven. Today in the scene before Nikki and the doctor came in where it was Adam standing in the living room with Ashley sitting I didn't see him faking his blindness at that point he was looking right at her or was it just me? Many holes in this story and I think the show and CE made a booboo there.

I swear to God, when Nikki handed him the towel, he didn't even try to act like he didn't know she was doing so. He just grabbed it. That was so damn obvious too.

Everytime I see Sharon now, I cant help but think of how many d---s have been inside her. She's SOOOO nasty. She screams walking STD and I feel like Im going to develop a nasty chlamydia just by looking at her

Edited June 10, 200916 yr by Cheap21

Everytime I see Sharon now, I cant help but think of how many d---s have been inside her. She's SOOOO nasty. She screams walking STD and I feel like Im going to develop a nasty chlamydia just by looking at her

Really what do you think when you see Nick and Billy and Jack who scored twice with two different women in the same night?

Edited June 10, 200916 yr by classicmoment

Everytime I see Sharon now, I cant help but think of how many d---s have been inside her. She's SOOOO nasty. She screams walking STD and I feel like Im going to develop a nasty chlamydia just by looking at her

Same goes for Jack though. He's at least as bad as Sharon now. Phyllis and Nick aren't really that far behind. It's just a huge nasty mess. Is this what TPTB want us to see? I don't understand where they are going with this?

Everytime I see Sharon now, I cant help but think of how many d---s have been inside her. She's SOOOO nasty. She screams walking STD and I feel like Im going to develop a nasty chlamydia just by looking at her

She's not the only one. Look at Billy. He came on the scene in September and in that time he had been with Amber, Lily, Chloe, and Sharon and is pushing hard for Mac. Jack's going directly from Phyllis to MJ without seemingly taking a shower had a definite "ick" factor to it. But of course, "Two is his limit". He has also been with Sharon a few weeks ago.

And nobody seems to use a condom except, ironically, the 16 yr olds, Noah and Eden. And of course, they also had the public service announcements by Josh Morrow (please) and Tracey Bregman (most airtime she had all year) about responsible teen sex. How ironic. The teens are the only ones on the show having responsible sex.

I swear to God, when Nikki handed him the towel, he didn't even try to act like he didn't know she was doing so. He just grabbed it. That was so damn obvious too.

He did. Did you miss the part where she screamed at him "take it" because he didn't when she first held out her hand?

And of course, they also had the public service announcements by Josh Morrow (please) and Tracey Bregman (most airtime she had all year) about responsible teen sex.

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