Y&R: Week of June 8, 2009

[Toups]

Gee thanks. I am so desperate I can't judge a show for myself. I see you've gone into the Sylph way of thinking - having a superior attitude and thinking we're all fake and desperate.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

From what I've read, the Y&R that went to an hour was almost a complexly different show from what was there before.

And if 1979 is the only evidence you have out of 36 years of history, I'm not convinced, nor am I impressed.

What I see now, from my experience as a viewer, the storylines going on now are nothing like that what Bell wrote when I was watching during his tenure. These stories do not have the complexity or depth that most of Bell's storylines had. Also, Bill Bell did an amazing job of making his characters sympathetic, I cannot say the same for Maria.

[YRBB]

With the exception that that was well-planned, character-heavy, gothically written soap, while MAB's just a string of stories put together, with hints of brilliance here and there.

[Sylph]

[Sylph]

This practice is known as historigasmic patchwork.

[YRBB]

Oh, don't adopt that tone! How quickly one is judged.... I never said any of those things--what I said is that people just really really really want it to be good. If they have to ignore a couple of bad things, so be it. I've done it myself, I did it for months. They're not desperate therefore can't judge. They just take what's given because it's better than the rest of daytime. I've done that too. But you're going to disregard all of this.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

If anything, I think Bill would roll his eyes at this crap. He must be spinning in his grave over most of the stuff that's happening to his "baby."

I do not think he would have liked Phillip coming back from the dead.

I do not think he would like how Nikki's been phased out.

I do not think he would like what Nick's become.

I do not think he would be proud of the way this regime has handled its minority characters and the whole Winters clan.

Shall I go on?

And if I want a real gothic soap, I'll pop in my Dark Shadows DVD's.

[Sylph]

Nor did I. But apparently and afterall I did. Who cares? You want to believe Sylph thinks the majority of SON members are idiots? OK, fine, whatever...

[YRBB]

Complete and utter word!

[Sylph]

There's a reason Maria didn't work when Bill Bell was alive. I'm just going to say that. How quickly people forget her dreck when she first came on this show... Or how quickly they proclaim her the true heiress of Bellesque storytelling...

Anyway, one of the reasons I watch is to see another one of MarkH's Y&R spec soap bibles. They're fun.

[MarkH]

First of all, you're right. The hour switch coincided with the shift from Brooks-Fosters-Prentiss to (over time) Abbotts-Williams-Newmans. The evolution was well under way.

Secondly, I'm not offering Summer79 as evidence, Alphanguy79 is. But what I'm saying, based on his reminding me, is that Summer79 was a delightful phase, just like Summer09. And then it was over. So, too, I doubt Y&R will always be like this. This is a marvellously entertaining summer (probably calculated, in part, to bring in younger viewers...thankfully not with "teen" stories), and then it will pass. Last autumn brought us the marvellous start of the Kay-death story, and I see no reason why we won't see another tonal shift next fall.

This is a delimited period for "gothic fans". It is a phase. I welcome it. And it, too, soon will be over.

You say characters are not now sympathetic. But I (speaking only for me, not trying to convince anyone) find Adam and MJ REMARKABLY sympathetic. And therein lies the skill. Her two biggest driving villains, and many of us (e.g., Cara Mia, Cat) have said we actually FEEL for them, UNDERSTAND them, and hope they get away with stuff.

As Mike Goldberg said over at Welovesoaps, last Friday actually made many people feel something (for Phyllis)...something that soaps have not been succeeding at doing for many fans for some time. So, the show is doing something right for at least many of its viewers right now.

I fully acknowledge and validate the feelings of those who are disappointed right now. I feel regret for them. But for many, Y&R is offering a dish that many are loving right now. I guess you can't please all the people all of the time.

See, I would actually agree with you on some stories (e.g., the art story, or even picking P3 out of a hat for shock value--apparently). Others, though (like the front-burner Adam and Mary Jane tales) seem motivated, based in history and character....

Several people have complained that Ashley is being written as a generic victim now. I disagree. Part of what fuels this story is her three previous mental breakdowns. Thus, it makes sense that she -- and everyone else -- is doubting her right now. That helps give Adam the leverage to do what he is doing. That couldn't work with any other female on the canvas right now. So, as an example, Adam's story is a tale being told out of 25 years of history and character--Ashley's, the Newman's, and Adam's own backstory.

[Toups]

But how do you know that I just "want" the show to be good and not that I actually think it's good? I don't judge the show based on what other shows do, I judge the show based on itself. When one starts to try and get into other people's brain, and tell us what we think or how we feel, and say things like people are desperate.... those are Sylphisms.

[MarkH]

This is a fundamentally important point. First, there is the subjectivity of "good". But it goes beyond that. Those who feel the show is good (or aspects of it are -- I myself distrust those who holistically paint the whole thing with a rosy brush) can provide EVIDENCE/DETAILS about it.

And those who feel the show is not good can similarly provide evidence.

Thus, it is unproductive to disparage differing opinions. Rather, it is remarkable to note the disagreements, and to think how such a diversity of opinion leads to the kinds of compromises that end up in our final product. The showrunners CANNOT please all the people at once. The best they can do is to try to provide "the greatest good for the greatest number" -- especially in a highly commercial product like daytime soap.

I do feel (and yes, YRBB, I admit my relativism here), that Y&R is accomplishing this better than the rest of US daytime.

[mr. sweet]

i am enjoying Y&R immensely right now.

[Soapsuds]

It is not perfect by any means but I am enjoying it too. Even during Bell's run the show has some clunkers of storylines.