Members David V Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Goutman's been in the job for, what, 10 years now? The most disturbing thing about the decline of the soap genre is that the industry now rewards failure after failure by keeping you in a job undeservedly. Passanante and Goutman should have gone at least 3 years ago when there may have been time to salvage. FFS, his predecessor in the job- Felicia Minei Behr- managed to stabilise and improve the show somewhat after the 1996-97 ride from hell. Goutman has only brought it back to that level... or worse. ATWT still has the vets, and despite all the damage that's been done since about 1995, none of the hacks pretending to be writers have radically altered the history of the show have they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Yeah, this summer will make 10 years. Just so surprising that he's lasted this long. But no one cares anymore about these shows, so I guess it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have often thought about why Wheeler and Goutman have last this long and I agree with the above. The only conclusion that can be made is they don't care anymore. I think they stopped when they deleted the position of Executive in Charge of Production. P&G has a history of not keeping producers and writers around that long beginning with the 70's. GL went through numerous production changes every 4 to 5 years after the 20 plus year tenure of Lucy Ferri. AW constantly went through changes after Paul Rauch left. And so on. And same with writers. With the onset of the 70's so many of the P&G shows had writers who never lasted more than 5 years and often not given that much time at all. Yet now they keep Goutman and Wheeler and Passanante and Kreizman no matter what happens. And I think they care least about ATWT than they do GL. With GL they at least have tried new production techniques, tried to cut the budget, etc. It seems like there they are really trying to save the show. But either Goutman is not as imaginative as Wheeler or both he and P&G just don't give a damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.J. Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 Uhm...c'mon....not all of Goutman's tenure has been a disaster. Everyone was kissing his and Sheffer's ass just a couple of years ago. The only truly BAD decisions he's made is keeping Pissy, and this "compressed" storytelling that's going on. You have to factor in the budget in the hiring and firings dilemmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MichaelGL Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I couldn't help but to lol at the title of the thread. No Goutman's entire timeon the show hasn't been all bad, but it's become more apparent, than ever that it time for him and Jean to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted March 9, 2009 Members Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't think all of his tenure has been bad. I was a big supporter of his for a long time. Now as far as Sheffer. I wasn't around on this board during his tenure that much but I was never a big supporter of Sheffer. I liked what he did when Carolyn Culliton was working with him, but I never felt Sheffer was right for ATWT. I have said it before but I'll say it again. Sheffer is good with a strong writer by his side. When he is in control or working with a less talented writer Sheffer's weaknesses become so apparent. I feel like he strives way too much on camp which I like in small doses but he takes it way overboard. And the only stories he can writer for an older man especially are illnesses or stories that put them in a bed or confined in some way. He sees older men as weak and can't writer a strong older male character at all. He pretty well gave Bob Hughes one story while he was there and Bob spent a huge part of it in a coma. And then at Days look what he did to Stefano DiMera. He has other weaknesses too but those stuck out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jfung79 Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 It's already put many out of work, so putting even more out of work is fine? I don't see the logic. If your point was that we should care about the people who have already lost their jobs too, I would wholeheartedly agree with that. It's not an either-or. But I don't see this as hypocrisy at all, which you seem to imply. Cancellation would do nothing to bring jobs back, and no one on here was ever urging on CBS budget cuts. It's also not an either-or to both want the show around for "selfish" enjoyment reasons and at the same time recognize that it is a real-world employer. Ruckston Hills - again, that doesn't mean the show can't be something someone else could enjoy just because you don't. Switch it off, change the channel, but cancellation? About EP/HW longevity - I'm actually happy with this to an extent. Being too trigger-happy with firing has been a problem leading to shows not developing a vision or not maintaining consistency in story and in characterization in the past. AW's constant turnover of EPs and HWs was part of what led to its demise. There just needs to be a balance between giving execs space to implement their vision, and recognizing when they have failed and stepping in. I do believe P&G still cares, as shown by their advertising for ATWT and GL during the People's Choice Awards, the podcast experiment awhile back, and the P&G Classic Soaps blog. If they didn't care, I think both ATWT and GL might have been canceled some time ago. P&G has had to fight to keep them on the air as long as they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bellcurve Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 I brought that up as a point to say that every GL fan(and fan of a dying soap) uses that as an excuse to justify this 3PM eyesore. These fans always mention all the people who will be put out of work instead of mentioning the people who have already lost their jobs and have to find work doing stuff for another show. They lost their jobs too. They have families and drug/alcohol addictions to feed too. Prior to your last-minute save, those people were never mentioned in these pathetic "Let's Save Guiding Light" pep rallies. Wanting a show to survive because you believe it is well written, acted, and produced is one thing. But please leave the whole jobs thing out of it. Don't justify the suits' cost-cutting by saying, "It will put SO MANY PEOPLE OUT OF WORK! OMG!" I mean, what's next? Are GL fans going to send in Duracell batteries to the White House, asking Obama for stimulus money to save their show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rakesh Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 OMG, ROFLMAO!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rakesh Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 If P&G really cared about their soaps, all those hack writers would have been fired ages ago. GL's sets are BEYOND hideous. Why can they spend money on the sets? Why can't the hire designers from HGTV and fix up those fugly sets? They have money but those fuckers are too greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members All My Shadows Posted March 10, 2009 Members Share Posted March 10, 2009 This is always the most ridiculous thing I ever hear of. Why people think that they have to resort to foolish gimmicks like that is way beyond me...if they feel so passionate about a show and want to do something about it, they can't put their thoughts in a nice letter? And have a zillion people send them in? WTF kind of a message does sending in boxes of macaroni and cheese going to put forth? And don't even get me started on the fans of a certain couple on an NBC soap who sent in bedding sets as a hint to have said couple get it on more. Tacky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members P.J. Posted March 11, 2009 Members Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'd never defend Sheffer either. For all the praise heaped on that man by the ass-kissing Emmy voters, I can't think of one character he developed that was more than a caricature. I'm just saying, for all his faults, Goutman did make some good moves. I'm not sure if he's burned out, the budget crunch has forced him into some corners or what...(some have mentioned ATWT doesn't want to risk the wrath of cutting vets like GL did... which I think rings true.) But he's still pulled some innovations out of his butt that went over a lot better in the cost-cutting department than GL's did. One only needs to look at the puny GL sets to realize that. I used to believe all the "P&G doesn't care/they want out" talk. Until they brought Grant Aleksander back to GL. That's not a move to tank your show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Babygurl Posted March 14, 2009 Members Share Posted March 14, 2009 I think that is whats going to happen when/if they are renewed. I also think they will have to make budget cuts whether they like it or not. Scary times for all the soaps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ann_SS Posted March 14, 2009 Members Share Posted March 14, 2009 LOL! You have to spill. What couple? Fan bases are full of wacky people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members y&r_fan Posted March 15, 2009 Members Share Posted March 15, 2009 WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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