Members MarkH Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 We agree. Soaps will be cancelled, and they will not (for the most part) show up in other venues. The sole exception, I have been half-convinced by DaytimeFan, might be Y&R. I don't think it is self-fulfilling. I think it is logical conclusions drawn from clear predictors and trends. I don't think you heard much of this "death of soaps" stuff (although Roger Newcomb posted a 1983 Time article that talked about the death of soaps even then) until recent years. But you just have to follow the numbers. There can be no other conclusion. I don't think it is just the death of soaps. though they may go first. I think network free-TV, in general, is almost done. To be clear, I think we can expect the death of these soaps...soaps in general will rise again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SteveFrame Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Personally I think we are just reliving history. When TV came about there was a new medium to watch soaps and radio soaps started dropping as. They held on for a few years on radio and then in 1960 CBS (the last network on radio to air them) cancelled all their remaining soaps on the same day. I think we are just living in a time when even when soaps are good there are just too many things competing with them and with TV in general - just like radio did back then. Soaps cannot keep up with the modern viewer either. The modern viewer does look at production values more than viewers of yesterday. Soaps like The Edge of Night could not succeed today. Hell even a soap like Dark Shadows that had very low production values couldn't survive in first run today as today's viewer does look at sets and stuff and picks the show apart on things like that. Soaps do not have the money to upgrade and do things as they should anymore. And networks are unwilling to spend the money to increase things like that. Personally instead of having a soap move to a another major network. My wish is for soaps to move to cable. From what I understand the cost is less there, and there is the ability to make them a little more edgy. I would love to see that. I think that could add something to the stories that might lure viewers in or at least make them more enjoyable to the fans they do have. I think soaps can hold on a few more years beyond what some are predicting, but they cannot do it as hour shows and I am not sure the networks are willing to cut them. As the casts are being cut there are less people that the writers can work with, and stories for the same old same old gets very old very quick - and it stifles writers to keep coming up with ways to keep the few characters they are often forced by fans to writer for interesting. A shorter time frame would help with that immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaytimeFan Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Y&R and B&B are totally different animals. The Bells are going to keep those shows going for as long as they can do them to the degree of taste that they're currently able. B&B is self supporting and Y&R is a cash cow. The Bells have a vision that extends past those two shows that doesn't take into account the USA. Soaps, as they are viewed in America, are on their way out (although again, Y&R and B&B will either continue to flourish or at the very least outlive their competitors for a good decade). All that being said, the Bells and their shows will leave before the party's over. They're not going the GL route, ever. CBS would never acquire AMC if ABC were to cancel it. The show has virtually identical (if not somewhat worse) numbers than ATWT. Also, when shows jump networks they lose a chunk of their audience and if ATWT or GL was canceled in favor of AMC the show would receive a backlash, just as I believe Passions did after it replaced Another World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DavidEvanSmith Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 I think cutting soaps back to a half hour and trimming the average cast from 30 down to maybe 18/20 contract cast members (moving "past their prime" vets and "colorful, kooky" characters to recurring status) would save a great deal of money. Do we notice the increase in recurring cast members? GH builds story around so many recurring cast members, and many of their contract regulars are relative "newbies". I think GH's cast is pretty lean right now, not spending terribly too much money on anyone extraneous. Thinking of the "vets", John Ingle probably got a salary reset when he came back from DAYS to GH, Jane Elliot probably makes a lot less than she would had she not been gone from 1993-2003, John J. York was bumped to recurring in the early 00's, and then put back on contract which probably saved a chunk of money he'd accumulated since joining in the early 90s. Leslie Charleson is probably swallowing the biggest chunk of "unearned" money (in the eyes of TPTB), unless she's taken an unpublicized paycut. Zeman went recurring status and we see her how often? I would bet that all the big money on GH is invested in Benard, Burton, Wright, Geary, and Brown. Second tier salaries are probably afforded to Grahn, Hearst, Rademacher, Herbst, Christopher, Charleson, and Monaco. Third tier salaries probably go to Vaughan, Berman, Barash, Storms, Ward, York, McCullough, Thompson, Elliot, Ingle. And fourth tier is probably newbies that aren't as "marketable" like Anderson, Eddy, Boniadi, Coffee, Cook. And maybe heavy recurring players like LoCicero and Henessy. And that's the whole contract cast right there! Dropping the fourth tier of contract cast to recurring status, and maybe Ingle and York from tier three would save some money and if they cut Charleson down to a tier three pay, the money might be invested where the should would seem more profitable to TPTB. Hm, this tier ranking might be a good topic for a thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smadleyb Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 QUOTE (Soapsuds @ Jan 5 2009, 11:08 PM) For a minute there I thought you were talking about Guiding Light. Silly Me.... Oh wait... sexless porn??? nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 CBS already has one sinking ship on it's network: Guiding Light, why would it want another(AMC)? But anywho, NO because: ABC OWNS the show, CBS isn't going to pick up another network's show when there's no reason too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan Chamberlain Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Well. If the networks would forget about doomsday. And, start focusing on the writing. Maybe everything would be okay. It's like they are trying to run them into the ground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smadleyb Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yeah, it does seem like they're way more focused on budgets and bottom lines than they are on quality storytelling - it's almost like they're treating scripted shows like the cheaper reality ones where whoever comes in the cheapest and gets the target ratings they're after wins instead of how to build a solid core audience who cares about the characters, is engrossed in the storylines, and wants to come back to watch day after day, and continue to build their audience share from there. C'mon, I know times are tough all over, but somebody's got to be making money somewhere in the industry - they can't do just a little bit better for the viewers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members All My Shadows Posted January 6, 2009 Members Share Posted January 6, 2009 Yep. And if AMC or OLTL were canceled for DAYS, there would be backlash as well, despite what some..."fans"...have convinced themselves. Some people, I swear...they're delusional. They think that when DAYS gets canceled, either ABC will drop one of its soaps or CBS will drop ones of its soaps, and the fans of whatever soap that gets dropped won't mind because it's DAYS, and they're bound to be mesmerized by it's purely awesome glitteryness. GMAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dan Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 I'd also include (like DaytimeFan it seems) B&B if only because it is one of (if not THE) the most popular show internationally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Darlotto99 Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 I think OLTL and AMC will be merged before both are cancelled. Y&R and B&B will be last standing and maybe the rest strait to DVD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted January 7, 2009 Members Share Posted January 7, 2009 Frons will cancel OLTL before he merges it with AMC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SFK Posted January 8, 2009 Members Share Posted January 8, 2009 I think the shows would be cut to :30 min. before they were ever merged, and I don't even see that happening. I see cancellation, period, before any sort of time cutting/merging. It would be cute and appease our little soapy imaginations to see Erica, Adam, Viki, and Dorian all sharing scenes together, but we are talking some serious cast cuts to make that work and the money situation alone would be a mess. More salary cuts, I mean, are our top stars still getting their same weekly guarantees for half (maybe even a third!) of the amount of work? Half the crew would also be cut, and would the network pay for both EPs to work as a team for a few months until one was let go or both were axed to bring in someone they could get for cheaper? Yikes, just a lot of stuff to contend with. And I won't even touch the matter of egos/billing... title changes!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dragonflies Posted January 8, 2009 Members Share Posted January 8, 2009 I agree, Frons would cancel OLTL before he'd ever merge the two. Merging the two would be pointless. They're two separate shows, with their own fanbases, and they are similiar, but not enough to merge them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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