I don't understand how it's supposed to be fascinating psychological drama for a psychotic rapist who never pays for any of his crimes to hold his mentally impaired former rape victim hostage and brainwash her into thinking she loves him in a pathetic, desperate attempt to remake her in his own sick fantasy. Then after he's caught, we have to see the ex-wife who he beat up and deserted defend him and rip his victim apart on the witness stand in order to convince those of us who know how sick this all is that he didn't rape her yet again when we all know that he did. I must be missing something here. There is certainly potential for psychological drama, if they focused on Marty's journey back to a normal life after what was done to her again but they're not pursuing that. No, it's all about Todd, as always. Misunderstood Todd. Todd the victim. Todd against the world. Todd's lost everything. Everyone's out to get Todd so we can't hate him for being the evil predator that he really is. Blah, blah, blah. It's just more of the same but with far more offensive undertones.

Carlivati clearly loves rehashing old stories, remaking them in his own vision. This time he's not merely making a joke of some good characters or a great former story like he did with Tina's return and 1968, he is actively undoing a lot of positive cultural movement that this show helped spawn. He's taking this show back to the freaking dark ages in terms of gender and sexual politics. Sadly, our culture has long connected rape with sex and even love instead of power, violence, and misogyny. With Todd's insistence that he "loves Marty" and Tea informing him that he's never loved anyone because "Marty was always in his head" this show is attempting to romanticize the victim/abuser relationship. The good old "she really wanted it, deep down" or "he only did it because he wanted her so much" mentalities that have destroyed the lives of so many rape victims over the years by blaming them for their being attacked and that the initial rape story did a great deal to dispel. I have to wonder how long it'll be before we see Marty going to Todd, on her hands and knees, begging for his forgiveness because of what she "put him through" and thanking him for the gang rape because she was uppity and needed to be taken down a peg. Yeah I know, RC won't go there, right? Yeah, that's what everyone said about them developing "feelings" for each other. Everyone said that he'd never let them have sex either. Everyone said that Todd would be killed off soon after she was found. Everyone's been wrong so far. At every opportunity with this story, this show has sunk even lower than almost anyone imagined and this is only the beginning of the fallout.

I've seen alot of people in the ratings threads lament and wonder how OLTL can be so wonderful and the ratings not show it. The answer is simple: it ain't that great. It's probably better than all the others right now and while it had a few good months earlier this year, they were followed by several months of utter garbage and it's only now starting to pull itself together again. OLTL's biggest probably is that it's still horribly inconsistent. Not just week-to-week or day-to-day but scene-to-scene even. There are scenes of power, emotional weight, and humor but then they're ruined by infantile camp, bad acting by teeny boppers, or something truly offensive to it's target demographic like Marty surmising from her conversation with Andrew yesterday that she was a terrible person until Todd raped her and that the only way to get her life back is to become just like Todd and hurt him back. Huh?! Stuff like that doesn't tend to fill women with that holiday spirit, no matter how many shiny trees are on the set or how many cheesy fake B&W Christmas movie clips they show.

Tea

I think the overall story with Todd and Marty is fairly indefensible, and I found the lovemaking disgusting and Todd to now be un-viable as a character. I think RC takes the hit for that. But I've found almost all the resultant drama since to be excellent. While Todd may be parroting this disgusting line about Marty's love changing him, and RC's comments may not help, the actual on-air show does not seem to be giving Todd much of a leg to stand on in the writing. Todd can give his POV til the cows come home, but no one on the show is really buying it (except Tea) and we are still allowed by PTB and the creative staff to see him as a sick criminal. So Todd's position, "she wanted it" has not really been endorsed.

It's a difficult situation right now; in the summer, I felt the show's heart was in the right place but bogged down in too much light comedy and camp. RC has done well with comedy before, and I don't think it's a dirty word, especially on a show that has a history of going as dark as OLTL, but there was just too much. Then this fall, the Tarty story went berserk, the Montez storyline lurched into gear and then sort of stopped, and the Tess thing went on forever. Now we seem to be in a transitory stage, where there's a clean slate on a lot of those stories, some compelling new ones, one dud (Vanessa/Cristian), and one ugly, ugly story which is now being written pretty well, but wasn't worth the cost. (Tarty) I think this is easily the best the show has been since May/June, which was very good, but I hesitate to jump on the "OMFG SO AWESOME" bandwagon yet. While I think the show is overall pretty good right now and I am one of RC's earliest and biggest fans, he's made some huge blunders, and you are correct that this story with Todd has already violated a lot of viewers' trust, mine included, and could do so again at any point. (For example, the events coming next week - repulsive on their face, but it depends on how the situation is played; whether

Tea is twisting Marty's honest feelings at the time of the lovemaking against her to bend the law, or whether Tea's defense is taken as the gospel truth...which I don't believe.

)

Now Rosana was hot!

Vanessa, not so much...............

I respectfully disagree, though I not so respectfully will call Roseanne bug-eyed. I thinkVanessa is much hotter, she has a smidge of a latina MCE thing going on. I could NOT STAND Roseanne, ugh... "Chrisshun Chrisshun Chrisshun..."

"Todd, don't you say another word!"

My Tea is so badass

I respectfully disagree, though I not so respectfully will call Roseanne bug-eyed. I thinkVanessa is much hotter, she has a smidge of a latina MCE thing going on. I could NOT STAND Roseanne, ugh... "Chrisshun Chrisshun Chrisshun..."

Different strokes I guess. Still think Rosana was way hotter then Vanessa(who to quote Peter Griffin, looks like a foot).

Great show today. Nice Friday cliffhanger with Tea bursting into court. Tea's in Llanview to kick some @$$ isn't she? LOL

I just want to say how enjoyable the show has been these past few weeks. When you have a soap like GL or GH which basically say F--- you to the many fans of the show, it's great to enjoy a well written OLTL.

I don't understand how it's supposed to be fascinating psychological drama for a psychotic rapist who never pays for any of his crimes to hold his mentally impaired former rape victim hostage and brainwash her into thinking she loves him in a pathetic, desperate attempt to remake her in his own sick fantasy. Then after he's caught, we have to see the ex-wife who he beat up and deserted defend him and rip his victim apart on the witness stand in order to convince those of us who know how sick this all is that he didn't rape her yet again when we all know that he did. I must be missing something here. There is certainly potential for psychological drama, if they focused on Marty's journey back to a normal life after what was done to her again but they're not pursuing that. No, it's all about Todd, as always. Misunderstood Todd. Todd the victim. Todd against the world. Todd's lost everything. Everyone's out to get Todd so we can't hate him for being the evil predator that he really is. Blah, blah, blah. It's just more of the same but with far more offensive undertones.

Carlivati clearly loves rehashing old stories, remaking them in his own vision. This time he's not merely making a joke of some good characters or a great former story like he did with Tina's return and 1968, he is actively undoing a lot of positive cultural movement that this show helped spawn. He's taking this show back to the freaking dark ages in terms of gender and sexual politics. Sadly, our culture has long connected rape with sex and even love instead of power, violence, and misogyny. With Todd's insistence that he "loves Marty" and Tea informing him that he's never loved anyone because "Marty was always in his head" this show is attempting to romanticize the victim/abuser relationship. The good old "she really wanted it, deep down" or "he only did it because he wanted her so much" mentalities that have destroyed the lives of so many rape victims over the years by blaming them for their being attacked and that the initial rape story did a great deal to dispel. I have to wonder how long it'll be before we see Marty going to Todd, on her hands and knees, begging for his forgiveness because of what she "put him through" and thanking him for the gang rape because she was uppity and needed to be taken down a peg. Yeah I know, RC won't go there, right? Yeah, that's what everyone said about them developing "feelings" for each other. Everyone said that he'd never let them have sex either. Everyone said that Todd would be killed off soon after she was found. Everyone's been wrong so far. At every opportunity with this story, this show has sunk even lower than almost anyone imagined and this is only the beginning of the fallout.

I've seen alot of people in the ratings threads lament and wonder how OLTL can be so wonderful and the ratings not show it. The answer is simple: it ain't that great. It's probably better than all the others right now and while it had a few good months earlier this year, they were followed by several months of utter garbage and it's only now starting to pull itself together again. OLTL's biggest probably is that it's still horribly inconsistent. Not just week-to-week or day-to-day but scene-to-scene even. There are scenes of power, emotional weight, and humor but then they're ruined by infantile camp, bad acting by teeny boppers, or something truly offensive to it's target demographic like Marty surmising from her conversation with Andrew yesterday that she was a terrible person until Todd raped her and that the only way to get her life back is to become just like Todd and hurt him back. Huh?! Stuff like that doesn't tend to fill women with that holiday spirit, no matter how many shiny trees are on the set or how many cheesy fake B&W Christmas movie clips they show.

Here's the thing- if you are someone who was (and is) repelled and disgusted by this Todd and Marty storyline- and there are many people who are-( i am obviously not one them-) you are going to hate the show-period. Its tainted.

And I totally get it. Its kinda like if a close relative was murdered in cold blood and then the murderer was sent to prison and "found jesus". He/she would still make you sick no matter what good they did. You aren't going to see anything but a killer.

I think it is compelling drama. And no I was not a Carlivati fan (I am becoming one now). I thought OLTL was seriously overrated for a long time. Now I am its biggest supporter. I guess we all respond in different ways.

Here's the thing- if you are someone who was (and is) repelled and disgusted by this Todd and Marty storyline- and there are many people who are-( i am obviously not one them-) you are going to hate the show-period. Its tainted.

And I totally get it. Its kinda like if a close relative was murdered in cold blood and then the murderer was sent to prison and "found jesus". He/she would still make you sick no matter what good they did. You aren't going to see anything but a killer.

I think it is compelling drama. And no I was not a Carlivati fan (I am becoming one now). I thought OLTL was seriously overrated for a long time. Now I am its biggest supporter. I guess we all respond in different ways.

Rover, I get tired of defending Todd and Marty, don't you? I guess there are two sides to this - either you get it and enjoy it or you don't! No matter what side of the coin you are on, it's certainly a hot topic of discussion. I have noticed that plenty of the folks who "hate" this story or those who are offended by it have continued to watch. That tells me a lot.

Great show today. Nice Friday cliffhanger with Tea bursting into court. Tea's in Llanview to kick some @$$ isn't she? LOL

I just want to say how enjoyable the show has been these past few weeks. When you have a soap like GL or GH which basically say F--- you to the many fans of the show, it's great to enjoy a well written OLTL.

Michael, I knew Tea would be fun, and I have not been disappointed! What a firecracker she is!

Great show today. Nice Friday cliffhanger with Tea bursting into court. Tea's in Llanview to kick some @$$ isn't she? LOL

Tea She's been wonderful to watch this week.

So Sarah compared Vanessa to Salma Hayek? Um, not even close, Sarah. LOL

Rover, I get tired of defending Todd and Marty, don't you? I guess there are two sides to this - either you get it and enjoy it or you don't! No matter what side of the coin you are on, it's certainly a hot topic of discussion. I have noticed that plenty of the folks who "hate" this story or those who are offended by it have continued to watch. That tells me a lot.

Dale- YES!!!! I always want to start my responses with- "I am not apologizing anymore for enjoying the Todd/Marty"... So its funny that you say that! :)

And yes, I am totally sick of defending the storyline- and I find myself reading these responses and questioning MY OWN CHARACTER for enjoying a storyline that affects people in such a deeply negative way. Its weird. But I just don't GET the anger. Its fictional. Evil people lurk EVERYWHERE. Its like watching some heightened version of reality. Rape is a disgusting and violent crime. But this storyline to me is brilliant. It doesn't offend me. And I feel bad! But what else can you say. SOD is run by women and they called OLTL the Best show of 2008! But then you have Connie P (Marlena Delacroix) whom I love and who I respect as a journalist- She is deeply disgusted and offended and wrote ABC....

And when I read these responses, people are still hung up on the episode(s) from a month ago. They are so disgusted and calling the show disgusting but truly aren't seeing past 4 weeks ago and watching what is on the screens now. They have nothing but nasty things to say about the show- and I really can't respond because they are never going to see anything else- They hate it. But appear to watch it!

I guess I do the same thing with B&B. Other than having my favorite actress in daytime, Susan Flannery (I adore this woman) I find B&B absolutely TERRIBLE. Horrible scripts, some of the worst actors, ever... Its like watching a Saturday Night Live skit. I find it OFFENSIVE in the sense that Bell can put out a product so awful and still get decent ratings. But I watch it. But not for the reasons I watch OLTL. I watch it to make fun of it. It really makes me laugh out loud.

I'm off on a tangent.

All I can say is, today was another solid episode. And I had no idea what a shot in the arm Tea would bring either. I don't think Lozano has ever been this GOOD. She is a very confident actress and you can see her enjoying herself! She has had some small roles in films and you don't get the impression like she feels like she is slumming. Loving her.

Edited December 13, 200817 yr by rangethatrover

Tea Delgado is made of pure awesome.

I am LOVING how she's being written. This is the tough as nails attorney who first showed up in Llanview, yet they have also given her moments where you see that softer side underneath.

When she walked into the courtroom yesterday? Just so fun!

Really really liked those Todd and Jack scenes..The kid playing Jack is a nice little find, and you could def. see his love for his father in his eyes. Which is great to have a younger actor being able to play that sort of stuff.

Wake me when it's over.

Jack is awesome.

Tea Delgado is made of pure awesome.

I am LOVING how she's being written. This is the tough as nails attorney who first showed up in Llanview, yet they have also given her moments where you see that softer side underneath.

When she walked into the courtroom yesterday? Just so fun!

I agree, and the best part is that we have not even seen her go head to head with Blair and Nora yet!

I hope she and Starr have some scenes of significance. When Tea was her mom, they loved each other.