3 minutes ago, sivad40 said:

A right winger asked this question on another board to the liberals

 

" Let's say after 2-4 years, the Trump presidency manages to be successful (booming economy, manufacturing jobs added. wall built, illegal immigration under control, treaties renegotiated in favor of the U.S., etc) will you be willing to admit that Obama was an amateur who could give a good speech, but was completely out of his depth and had no clue how to govern?

Uh, no.  Because Obama was handed a steaming pile of shi* to start.  Given the starting point he's been given, MOST of what was listed above should be easy.  Nor did Obama have both houses of Congress.    But I'll believe ALL of that above when it happens and then let them know.

 

I want to know why he's so not in favor of the current trade arrangements that he keeps harping on - when he sourced his steel from China, and his Daughter's clothing line is all made in China.  What was so awful trade-wise for ya, Donny Boy? 

5 minutes ago, sivad40 said:

A right winger asked this question on another board to the liberals

 

" Let's say after 2-4 years, the Trump presidency manages to be successful (booming economy, manufacturing jobs added. wall built, illegal immigration under control, treaties renegotiated in favor of the U.S., etc) will you be willing to admit that Obama was an amateur who could give a good speech, but was completely out of his depth and had no clue how to govern?

 

Nothing about health care? Climate change or environmental protections? A living wage? 

 

Sounds like these right-wingers are far more interested in stripping Obama's legacy down to nothing (which as a transformational figure, seems fairly difficult, if not impossible) than they are in creating "success" for all Americans. It will be to their detriment that they have been so obsessed (as is Trump) with Obama. It won't hurt Obama, but there's a darn good chance that it will end up hurting vast numbers of American people.

18 minutes ago, sivad40 said:

A right winger asked this question on another board to the liberals

 

" Let's say after 2-4 years, the Trump presidency manages to be successful (booming economy, manufacturing jobs added. wall built, illegal immigration under control, treaties renegotiated in favor of the U.S., etc) will you be willing to admit that Obama was an amateur who could give a good speech, but was completely out of his depth and had no clue how to govern?

The other thing that I really don't understand about the question - is that you're asking me to judge Obama....based on whether Trump does this ridiculous list they gave?  No - nothing will change my opinion about Obama based on that list because, those are issues that Trump apparently wants.  Obama ran on a ticket that wanted a healthcare plan - he did it.  He mentioned wanted equality for all Americans and ensuring equality - I happen to be Gay, and he did that for me.  He promised to get our economy in a better place - it is, so check that off.  He promised to fight for the American worker - he supported the U.S. Auto Bail out (which Trump by the way said he would not have done...he said that during the campaign, so why he stands there now with the people in Detroit acting like....whatever, I don't know)....but Obama did alot to support the American worker if you THINK about it for a couple of seconds.  Supporting women's issues/health - that was another thing I remember....he was vocal about issues like Planned Parenthood.  So Obama did what he said he was going to do, so that's what I'll remember.  Asking me to judge whether Obama was out of his depth based on some pathetic list of "conservative" issues that Trump said he'll address....no, it won't change my mind about Obama.  I don't agree with most of the things on the Trump list, so if he accomplishes all of them....it won't change my mind about him either.  His VP has a history of LGBT hate - and I'm tired of the excuse that....."well, people change, and he's changed."   No he hasn't, he's just faking it to look more palatable. 

23 minutes ago, Fevuh said:

The other thing that I really don't understand about the question - is that you're asking me to judge Obama....based on whether Trump does this ridiculous list they gave?  

 

It's trolling. There is no right answer to give because the question is designed for no other reason than to annoy people, I assume. 

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

As a rejoinder to Pence's nonsensical answer on press access at the WH, there's this:

 

I'm trying to remember a time that the White House press corps were actually of any merit. Watergate, maybe? I remember hearing about the laughing and chuckling they did when Reagan's press person would joke about AIDS. I remember their sycophancy with W, and oddities like this:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Gannon

 

They shouldn't be shut out, as it's just another sign of censorship, but they're just a pointless relic of a time when back-slapping and tomey parties with the Bradlees were all that mattered. 

3 hours ago, Fevuh said:

Uh, no.  Because Obama was handed a steaming pile of shi* to start.  Given the starting point he's been given, MOST of what was listed above should be easy.  Nor did Obama have both houses of Congress.    But I'll believe ALL of that above when it happens and then let them know.

 

I want to know why he's so not in favor of the current trade arrangements that he keeps harping on - when he sourced his steel from China, and his Daughter's clothing line is all made in China.  What was so awful trade-wise for ya, Donny Boy? 

 

Excellent post.  Excellent!

 

 

Whats how some bash consevative republican opinions its not trolling. Is this thread the liberal politics thread? Obama was handed a terrible economy but i am sorry all that was produced was low paying jobs like 12 to 13 bucks an hour. U tell.me in california where rent is super expensive how does that pay bills? Obama economy was nothing like Bill Clintons economy. Obama was an overated prexy he was nothing wowing.

I don't know what at all to think of this but when it tends to make me think that the next administration's foreign policy may be a bit of a mess.

 

China’s Global Times: Are Paper’s Warnings of War With U.S. Legitimate?

 

Everyone talks about Russia but it is China that is the bigger power, economically and geo-politically. 

 

The Obama administration had a delicate balancing act with China especially regarding the skirmishes occurring in the South China sea. When you're dealing with something as sensitive as issues of sovereignty and uninhabited islands-that's no time to try to bulldoze and make pronouncements or try to hand down fiats.

 

China appears to deal diplomatically with the same attitude in which they think they are being treated. Obama acknowledged China on the world stage and appealed to them as part of the group of countries with power to be an example of good stewardship as the U.S. was trying to do and it appeared to work- with agreements like the Paris accord on climate change, China seemed ready to commit to their responsibility as stewards, defying all predictions that they wouldn't do it.

 

Unfortunately, if you try to boss China, the Chinese seem apt to give it right back. Trump's aggressive stance, which may work for business, is likely to be met with equal aggression from the Chinese. There's really no need for this macho posturing right out of the gate, it's bad diplomacy, potentially as bad or worse than the 'cowboy diplomacy' of the W years.

5 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Nothing about health care? Climate change or environmental protections? A living wage? 

 

Sounds like these right-wingers are far more interested in stripping Obama's legacy down to nothing (which as a transformational figure, seems fairly difficult, if not impossible) than they are in creating "success" for all Americans. It will be to their detriment that they have been so obsessed (as is Trump) with Obama. It won't hurt Obama, but there's a darn good chance that it will end up hurting vast numbers of American people.

 

I counter that question with: if (when) the economy goes into the ditch - as it always does under Repblicans- and unemployment rises and the stock market crashes will they admit that Trump is a conman and that they got bamboozled? But I already know the answer. Right wingers never own up to their mistakes. 

Frankly, I'm done with comparing Trump to Obama...and I'm done with comparing him to Bill and Hillary Clinton, too.

Edited January 16, 20178 yr by Khan

6 minutes ago, Khan said:

Frankly, I'm over comparing Trump to Obama and/or Billary.  You know what I mean: you bring up one of Trump's MANY faults and all you get in response is, "Well, what about Obama/Hillary/Bill?".  To me, making comparisons is pointless, now that Obama's finished, Hillary has lost the election and Bill hasn't even been in office in over 16 years.  You don't have to judge the incoming Trump administration against anyone or anything to know what it means for the future of this country.

 

(I hope that all makes sense.)

 

It definitely makes sense. Unfortunately, it's constant with conservatives and right-wingers right now. I hope once that oath of office takes place, the false equivalencies (which have been going on for over a year) and the excuse-making will end. Then Trump will have to answer for his decision making on his own.

5 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

It definitely makes sense. Unfortunately, it's constant with conservatives and right-wingers right now. I hope once that oath of office takes place, the false equivalencies (which have been going on for over a year) and the excuse-making will end. Then Trump will have to answer for his decision making on his own.

 

The false equivalence and excuse making will never end. It's all they have.

I say, if you want to compare Trump with anyone, compare him with Dubya, since he was the last Republican president to occupy the White House.  Better yet, think about the last time the GOP (or any party) controlled two-thirds of our government and what happened as a result.

Edited January 16, 20178 yr by Khan

6 minutes ago, marceline said:

 

The false equivalence and excuse making will never end. It's all they have.

 

Which is why I, you and others usually feel the need to speak up. It's a trap, that's never-ending.

10 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I hope once that oath of office takes place, the false equivalencies (which have been going on for over a year) and the excuse-making will end. Then Trump will have to answer for his decision making on his own.

 

I hope so, too.  But I also think marceline is right.