The Politics Thread

[Khan]

I'm sorry - you know how much I adore you, @marceline - but I just can't give into that way of thinking.  Not yet.  As demoralized as I feel right now, I have to believe that there's a chance (however small) of the pendulum swinging back eventually. 

Trumpism, IMO, is like any virus that invades the body.  We thought we had caught the virus in time four years ago, when we elected Joe Biden.  Now we're finding out that, in fact, we didn't catch it in time, so now we have to let it run its' course.  And sure, when all is over and done with, America will not be the same.  America wasn't the same after the last civil war either.  There will be much, much work to do in the name of repairing this country and restoring its' status with the rest of the world; and it will take generations of brave, hard-working people to do it.

But my point is that fascism can't last forever.  It didn't last before, in Europe, and it won't last this time either.

In the meantime - yes, presuming there IS an election in 2028 and thereafter - I think we'll need to adjust our expectations going forward of who will be desirable candidates for office.

The door to another woman or person of color running for president has pretty much closed for this generation.  If it happens again, it'll be after many of us have passed on.

As well, the next several presidents we have will have to come from the Midwest, Great Plains and Southern regions.  Resentment toward the east and west coasts will be with us for many years to come.

I refuse to say that the Democratic Party will never get its' you-know-what together, figure out how to combat the massive misinformation complex that the Russians, in compliance with our own media, have built and regain power in the WH and in Congress.  They'll figure it out, but I do believe that many of the progressive causes that we have been campaigning on - things like reproductive rights, civil rights, gay/trans rights, etc. - will need to take a back seat for now.

(Take it from me, I live in Oklahoma, one of the most backward-thinking states in the nation.  People from the heartland, who now have the rest of the country by its' balls, either don't understand such things as gay/trans rights or abortion rights, don't care much about 'em or believe they go against what's in the scriptures.  The only way you can get through to these racist, sexist, homo- and transphobic a-holes and win them away from the Republicans is by talking about the economy.  Period.  A smart Democratic nominee will know how to do it.  A REALLY smart Democratic nominee, supported by the right media ecosystem, will know how to convince Larry Joe and Etta Mae that allowing women to have abortions, gay people to marry and trans people to live as whatever gender they wish actually benefits their pocketbooks.)

As I said several years ago, after the last time we THOUGHT we had bid goodbye to Donald Trump forever, what we'll experience in this country will be very akin to what happened between the end of the Lincoln administration and the start of Theodore Roosevelt's administration (or Franklin's, depending on how you view things).  During that period, we lived through a series of administrations led by men who, for the most part, were very white, very bland and very forgettable.  Men who didn't see it their business to be progressive so much as to keep the trains moving (much like Frank Valentini, lol).  It was a very rough time for our country, to be sure, but it also was necessary in order to help us heal from what had been, up to that point, the darkest hour in our history.

I said all that when Joe Biden was elected, and I believe it stands today.

Edited November 8, 2024 by Khan

[j swift]

The test, as always, will be the midterm elections.

[janea4old]

Military officials discussing how to respond to illegal orders under Trump

Officials at the Pentagon are having informal discussions about what to do if Donald Trump were to give an illegal order, such as deploying the military domestically, CNN reports.

They are also preparing for the possibility that he may change rules to be able to fire scores of career civil servants.

On the campaign trail, Trump has mulled sending the military after his political enemies, and also to turn back migrants at the southern border. US law generally prohibits active-duty troops from being deployed for law enforcement purposes. There are also fears he could gut the civil service in the Pentagon, and replace fired staff with employees selected for their loyalty to him.

Here’s more, from CNN:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/08/politics/pentagon-officials-discussing-trump/index.html

Trump has suggested he would be open to using active-duty forces for domestic law enforcement and mass deportations and has indicated he wants to stack the federal government with loyalists and “clean out corrupt actors” in the US national security establishment.

Officials are now gaming out various scenarios as they prepare for an overhaul of the Pentagon.

“We are all preparing and planning for the worst-case scenario, but the reality is that we don’t know how this is going to play out yet,” one defense official said.

Trump’s election has also raised questions inside the Pentagon about what would happen if the president issued an unlawful order, particularly if his political appointees inside the department don’t push back.

“Troops are compelled by law to disobey unlawful orders,” said another defense official. “But the question is what happens then – do we see resignations from senior military leaders? Or would they view that as abandoning their people?”

[Vee]

I'm with @Khan. That outlook is the only way I can get through the day. I won't give up on abortion though. That one's not why Trump won, it remains a major weakness.

[marceline]

In an authoritarian regime elections don't matter.

[KristinG79]

Hi all! Just wanted to say that, as a Norwegian, I feel absolutely horrible for all of you. Even though I had a few worries, I was convinced that Kamala Harris would win. But alas, I was wrong and that saddens me greatly, not just for those who voted for Harris, but for what impact this will have on the US and the rest of the world.

I guess I should've known better, but my rose-coloured glasses from my childhood came back. I was enamoured with what I thought the US stood for, and was one of the reasons I was determined to go to the US as an exchange student back in -96. (I spent 10 months in Michigan living with a christian conservative family, which was quite an experience, and not all good. Although they told me before I came to live with them that I was not required to go to church as often as they did, that was not the case when I finally arrived. I had to go to church and, although it was completely against the rules, they tried to influence my religious beliefs. It was not fun having their youngest daughter look down on me because I didn't believe in God (something I have just recently accepted). And this was almost 30 years ago. (They are now Trump-supporters.))

My perception of the US has changed a lot, especially these last few years, but I do hope that things will get better. They have to ... right?!

Edited November 9, 2024 by KristinG79
spelling

[DRW50]

That's very kind of you.

[Khan]

Thank you, @Vee.  I'll admit that I was wrong when I said we needed to concede to the GOP on reproductive rights.  Doing so would be tantamount to admitting the GOP was right - which they are not.

After everything that my family and I have been through since my father's death in 2012, now we have to witness our country being burned to the ground by a bunch of ignorant, mouth-breaking crackers, who don't know the first thing about Jesus or our government?  I don't think so.

Scarlett O'Hara might have been just a spoiled, white girl from the South, but that narcissistic heffa had a point: as God is my witness, they are not going to lick me.  No, nor any of my folk.  Which includes everyone in this miserable, godforsaken country that I'm forced to call home.

So, I have made up my mind to fight.  I don't know how - I'm gonna have to pray about that - but as God is my witness, I'm gonna find a place where I can do some good, do it, then find another place where I can do some good, and keep doing it either until I'm dead or those goddamned fascists have been stopped, whichever comes first.

Because, if I can survive all that I have survived - death, divorce, bankruptcy, welfare, attempted suicide, loss of the house I lived most of my life in, not to mention all 12 seasons of "Two and a Half Men" - I can survive Donald [!@#$%^&*] Trump, too.  And I will.  And WE will. 

Even if I have to drag every last quitter and doomsayer back to the voting booths and campaign rallies and protest marches and wherever else myself, we are not. Giving. Up.

Edited November 9, 2024 by Khan

[Vee]

I am focusing on taking care of myself and the people I care about in the way I mentioned from the article on the last page or two - focus on the little things, the little issues, the local problems, the things or people you can help in day to day life. That's all I have energy for at this point in the face of both this national situation and my own health concerns. If that means at some point I leave outright for parts elsewhere so be it, but I'm not there yet. I'm just shrinking my world and concerns down to something manageable for now, and tending to that. I suspect a lot of people will.

What comes after that on in the further future, we'll see. But I am done giving all my energy and mental headspace to a majority of the electorate that presently has no interest.

[Khan]

That’s all it takes (and that’s what I meant).  Just do the most you can, the best you can; and if enough of us do that, in time, it will make the difference.

Edited November 9, 2024 by Khan

[NothinButAttitude]

Play clown games, win carnival prizes. Hope it was worth selling your soul over, Nimrita. 

 

[MissPhoenixGirl92]

You know, it's funny. I honestly thought that when the news came out that Trump won that I was going to immediately fall into hopelessness and despair, just like I did when he won the last time. I mean, first I was in shock and numb and then eventually I became emotional and started crying in fear but now I'm determined to fight.

Like I said the other day I refuse to give up. I can't give up. I have to do whatever I can to survive and to help my friends and family to survive what's coming. I was texting my niece who is away attending college in California and she's panicked and terrified because she's afraid that her future as a young lesbian woman is in serious jeopardy. And that makes me sad. 

For now I'm going to try to enjoy the upcoming holidays and my birthday and focus on what I can control. If worse comes to worse and I end up losing my livelihood and my house, I'm going to ask my brother if I can move in with him in California. My parents can either move in with my sister and her family or they can relocate to Georgia and move in with my brother and his family. 

As far as the Democratic Party is concerned I do think that they need to start focusing on the economy as a major issue and start trying to convince voters that they can pass legislation that will allow them live on affordable wages and support themselves. Once the economy is in good standing, then they can start turning their attention on social issues again. Now I'm not saying that the social issues aren't important but a large majority of voters seem to be extremely concerned with inflation and the economy as a whole and I feel like that can't be ignored. It sucks but it's the truth.

[marceline]

People don't vote based on the economy. That's a lie they tell to pretend they didn't vote their ideology. People are out here complaining about the price of gas while travel numbers hit record highs.

There's literally nothing the Democratic Party can do when half the population literally wants an authoritarian government. It's not on the Democrats anymore. America made its choice. I can already tell people think this is going to be like the last time where Republicans run roughshod while everyone yells at Dems to "DO SOMETHING!" I think Dems are going to focus on trying to mitigate damage but certain issues will simply be deprioritized. Starting with immigration. There's simply no electoral benefit for Dems to continue prioritizing immigration reform

Folks are going to need to move away from every analysis starting with what Dems need to do. There's a realignment going on and the big tent is going to be made smaller.

[Maxim]

+1. I agree 100 percent. My analysis of the situation is pretty identical. 

This is the way! I wish you and you family prosperity. All of us have to fight and keep our heads up high. They want us to feel defeated, but I won't give them this satisfaction. NEVER. 

[Vee]

You can tell the press (especially the floundering Post) are desperate to reengage the libs they hate and keep them buying/watching. This ain't 2016. I'm done with that. You folks have fun. Same goes with any number of groups who will soon be experiencing swift consequences after cutting off their noses.

Edited November 10, 2024 by Vee