The Politics Thread

[Bright Eyes]

Men should have no say in abortions. At all, ever.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Bright Eyes

[GoldenDogs]

Hey Alpha, I've resisted the urge to post in this forum the past couple of weeks but feel compelled to here. Because I lean to the right -- and there isn't much in the way of diverse political viewpoints here -- I decided to offer up something in response to your post.

I actually had to read it three times to get into what you were saying. I see where you are going with this... I don't believe your intent was to denigrate women, nor do I believe your intent was to insult a woman who wishes to terminate a pregnancy resulting from rape. Those that immediately accuse you of such positions based on your statement are reactionary and clearly don't need much material to frame your words in a negative light. I don't recall ever seeing a series of posts here that suggest you are anti-woman or whatever, so it is a rush to judgement to categorize you as such.

I would add that I feel your post is poorly worded... no offense. There are many points you are making and the overall message comes out muddled and mixed to me. But I don't think your intent was as some are indicating...

[alphanguy74]

And as you know, I'm pretty liberal for the most part. But I would be considered conservative on a couple of issues. The biggest problem I have with abortion is that it's far easier for a woman to have an abortion than it is for a gay couple to adopt that baby, In cases where rape ISN'T the issue, it's about personal responsiblity, pure and simple, and if your'e reckless.. I don't feel it's right to take the easy way out.... but again, I'm not going to legally FORCE you have it, that's on your conscience. And for the record, my mother has the exact same opinion on this as I do. From my opnion on this to my thoughts on health care, I am all about trying to preserve life as much as possible, that's where me and many conservatives part ways, many of them are so gung ho to make abortion illegal, to preserve life..... but are SO against the idea of paying taxes so ill people who are poor can have life saving treatments. And all of THAT would be much less of a burden if we didn't have insurance companies legally bribing politicians so they can get rich off of people's sickness and misery, when insurance companies shouldn't be invovled in health care AT ALL.

Edited August 24, 2012 by alphanguy74

[quartermainefan]

I never understood the logic of "you had sex, pay the consequences". Ok, a stupid teenager had sex and now she is pregnant. We could A) end the pregnancy or B ) force them to have the kid and ruin their lives, stop them from perhaps going to school and going on to whatever career they might have gone on to, maybe force them into a relationship they would never enter into normally, and subject the child to a life of potential poverty and misery. Well, that will teach them a lesson!

And once the lesson is taught what has teacher accomplished other than ruining two, perhaps three lives?

Edited August 24, 2012 by quartermainefan

[marceline]

What's to understand? Sex is dirty and wrong and if you do it you should be punished for the rest of your life by raising another human being. What could go wrong?

[Ann_SS]

It is not much different from when the reluctance or Reagan, etc. to invest money in treating HIV/AIDS was because gay man were having sinful sex and therefore, they should live with the consequences (whisper God's punishment). These people need to focus on their own lives and stop worry about who f'cks who and where, who uses contraception or the morning after pill, and who has an abortion or not. Why ever a woman is having an abortion, it is not an easy decision and it is none of your god damn business.

RME. He said what he meant and meant what he said. If you agree with him fine, but don't lash out at me and others who understand exactly what he is saying or try to change his "intent."

Edited August 24, 2012 by Ann_SS

[alphanguy74]

Oh, heavens no.... I'm not talking those kinds of consequences. I'm saying if your'e stupid enough to have sex that could result in pregnancy when you don't want it, or aren't ready.... then have the baby, and give it up for adoption, or better yet, have OTHER kinds of sex that won't result in pregnancy... just relegate yourself to oral or the back door unless your'e using BOTH the pill AND condoms. The thing that doesn't work about your statement is the idea of "Potential" poverty and misery. Well... you know, poverty does NOT equal misery. My mother grew up with little or no money, but she wasn't miserable... no electricity, no running water, using an outhouse. But she will tell you she wasn't miserable. Give that baby to a gay couple and make their dreams come true. And I don't know about you, but most people would choose poor over dead. I'm all for teaching teens about masturbation, alternative methods of sexual contact that has no chance of pregnancy, etc.

Edited August 24, 2012 by alphanguy74

[alphanguy74]

It's nothing like the AIDS funding thing, because a woman carrying a baby does not end with her in a casket. And if it does, like I've said before.. all bets are off. And this knife cuts both ways.... because of medical advancements, we could in the future be able to determine if a fetus will be gay or not through blood testing, meaning unfettered abortions could also be used by fundies to kill gay babies before they are born, because they don't want them to bring shame upon their family. Something tells me you'd be against that.

[JaneAusten]

Me thinks and always has that if men were the ones impregnated and giving birth, abortion would not only be legal but embraced as morally right by everyone.

"A woman's reproductive system is no ones responsibility except her own and it's no one else's business to judge much less legislate what is a personal decision, regardless of the circumstances."

This stmt above by the way was made by the ultra conservative Barry Goldwater by the way.

[quartermainefan]

You have the baby. Can you? If you are physically unable to have a baby, on what basis do you start telling others they should have one.

As for the rest of your point (which is now rendered moot):

Give it up for adoption: outside of cute little white babies what are the stats on babies being adopted? Who is adopting these kids, you? Maybe I don't want to adopt those kids, I got a life of my own and down the road I want some of my own.

Give them to the gay parents: That's fine, except the very same people who want to stop abortions also want to stop gay people from adopting.

Have anal and oral sex: That's fine, except the very same people who want to stop abortions and stop gay people from adopting are also the same people who use local laws to make those sex acts illegal. Just ask Marv Albert what happened to him in Virginia because he got a blow job. Social conservatives have no answers to any of this except for their yearning for the shangri-la they think existed before those horrible 1960s started. Of course, back then wealthy people went away and had abortions anyway, only they didn't talk about it. The poor people had to take their chances with crackpot back alley doctors. So much better and oh so moral.

[DRW50]

Mitt Romney is going birther again.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/romney-jokes-no-one-ever-asked-to-see?ref=fpblg

Romney says it's OK because the audience loved it.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/romney-defends-birther-line-the-crowd-loved-it.php?ref=fpb

[alphanguy74]

Like I said... I can say they should have the baby, and they can do whatever the hell they want anyway. What's wrong with that? Women have the legal right to have an abortion, not to have an abortion with everyone's blessing. And the hypocrisy of social conservatives is and always will be a HUGE problem for me. I'm liberal 90 percent of the time, you all know this from reading my posts. I'm just not in lock step with every single thing. And YES... babies of any kind are in HIGH demand for adoption, there are waiting lists!!! It's older children that don't get adopted. I still would like to see how the catholic church would react if there was a constitutional amendment that would ban abortions except in rape, incest and life of the mother...and at the same time, require all catholic hospital to provide pre natal, delivery, and post natal care free of charge to any woman who requests it. I wonder if they'd put their money where their mouth is.

[GoldenDogs]

I don't recall lashing out at anyone and I'm not interested in a debate over his intent. If you wish to characterize him in a certain way, go for it. I wholeheartedly support your right to do so and I'm sure you wholeheartedly support my desire to disagree with you.

Ann, my days of arguing in forums are done. Conversation is always good... sharing of ideas is wonderful... respectful debate is fantastic. It's interesting to see varying viewpoint... take it all in and ponder it for a while. While I may disagree, I certainly respect what others offer. Alpha and I clearly disagree on a great many things politically but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because everything I have ever seen him post here suggests that he is a good person with a good heart.

Tolerance is about not judging. Yes, there are those who lean right that embrace that philosophy... ;-)

[Wales2004]

While it is true that older children are virtually ignored, it's not true about babies. There is a high demand for white babies. Black babies are at the bottom of the preference list and considering how unwanted they are, it's sad when people complain about celebrities adopting black babies. Now I can understand feeling dismayed about international adoptions when there are so many children here.

[marceline]

Indeed. When I taught Sunday School (yeah, let that sink in for minute) one of the kids in my class was the black son of a whet single mother. She told me that they considered her adoption a special needs adoption simply because they had so many black babies and it was easier to process that way. She often joked that she got the love of her life for court costs.