KNOTS LANDING

[SoapDope]

Another great Avery episode is "Night" in season 3 when Richard snaps and holds Laura and Jason captive in the house. Poor Laura, every time she tries to free herself from Richard, she finds herself going back. 

Richard was gross from day 1, but you couldn't help watching him and Laura any time they appeared onscreen.

Re: Gary & Val.....Gary was pretty much over his marriage to Val after he fell of the wagon at the end of season 1. By Season 2 he was barely tolerating her and was  often pissy any time she spoke to him. He even blew her off when she asked his help when she was helping Karen with her show. In season 3 Gary was screwing around with Abby right in front of her. He was looking out the window, climbing the walls, and walked out of the house in front of her to go be with Abby. She also asks him point blank and he gets up from the bed and slams the bathroom door in her face refusing to answer. Wake up Val !!!

Val was desperate to hold onto Gary she made a fool out of herself time and time again....then again, so did all the Ewing women with the brothers. Bobby is always touted as the good Ewing brother, but he often treated Pam like crap and mentally abused her with his macho ego. No wonder she tried to throw herself off a roof.

[Vee]

Richard was a very complex, nuanced character to me. His relationship with Karen is incredibly special, and his horrible spiral and treatment of Laura grew partly out of shared behavior that was codependent or mutually destructive. When she was up he was down, and when he tried to be up he could never sustain it, both because Laura had long since lost any respect for him (largely by his own doing) and because while trying to be an upwardly mobile man and provider of the '80s he always fell into a comedy of errors. He'd never found himself. Some of John Pleshette's dialogue and monologues were just brilliant, on par with the great tour de forces William Devane delivers upon his arrival.

As for Gary and Val, I think when they did first reunite on Dallas they were both kind of still arrested adolescents frozen in their past love, and when real life interfered it quickly started to disintegrate. Gary would go through deranged highs and lows of devotion to Val or pure misery, like his bender at the end of S1 and his apeshit meltdown when she had to go into the hospital in S2, and that is not stable behavior. I don't think either of them began to mature and actualize themselves until Season 3-4 (Val) and Seasons 4-5 (Gary). After that they're totally different people from the first two or three seasons. Which is why I can see them reuniting in future.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Vee

[Liberty City]

Finally at the first season finale.... whew.

[SoapDope]

That's a very good analysis of those characters. Laura was so sad and pathetic in S1 when she would bend over backwards to please Richard (even sleeping with Chip Todson) to help Richard get ahead in business. 

Yes, Val & Gary were in arrested development when they reunited. For a long time on Dallas, it seemed cruel the way Jock talked about Gary being weak and running away from responsibility. Well, Jock turned out to be right, Gary was weak and self destructive. He even thought it would be better if Val were to die than survive with a colostomy (because it would be too hard for him). I loved it when Bobby ripped him apart over it. It took years for Gary to grow a pair and deal with life head on.

I hate that smug shrug he would do when anyone confronted him about one of his screw ups. 

[Vee]

As I think other cast and crew and certainly Michele Lee pointed out, Murray was supposed to be kind of the big get from movies, etc. when the show began. (He's amazing in Advise and Consent and capped his career not long ago with a wonderful performance in Twin Peaks Season 3) He later noted he regretted leaving after the show ran on and on and on. I really liked him and Sid, but I agree it was for the best. Those first two eps of S3 are absolutely brilliant and it opened up everything that came after.

Episodes like the biker gang from hell (Born Free), Cricket, the ridiculous S2 hostage crisis (Moments of Truth), Three Sisters, the Lilimae Vegas romp (Rose and the Briar) and Silver Shadows all show the upper limits of this approach, so yes it was time to change. And I happen to like Three Sisters and Silver Shadows, but they are off-brand lol.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Vee

[SoapDope]

That episode about Cricket was one stupid episode. I didn't get why they tossed that into the mix. The S2 hostage crisis episode was cheesy kind of fun, but really served no purpose. If that episode had been during S3, Gary may have secretly wished Val would be offed and Abby survive so he could be with her guilt free....LOL

I wonder why Abby never made Gary legally adopt Brian and Olivia so she could declare them Ewing heirs ? Jeff just disappeared after he kidnapped them and was never mentioned again. 

[titan1978]

Normally I would skip the first couple of seasons, but this time I’m going to watch it all.

I just got through Lilimae’s intro. I really appreciate that even in later seasons she still maintains her self-centered, at times delusional behavior.

The Avery’s are the kind of complex couple that you could easily have seen on prestige television today. I could see them on Mad Men, on Succession, etc.

They were lucky to get Joan Van Ark. This time around I am really paying attention to her, and she has to carry a lot of the emotional weight of the first few episodes.

Val gains a core of strength and Gary grows up. Abby is a catalyst, but the truth is they all needed each other to get where they wanted/needed to be.

Even with ribbons in her hair and her sweet dresses, Valene is always herself in each stage of her life. And Gary is so uncomfortable with himself until he gets to the ranch, and uncovers Abby’s betrayals.

[Vee]

Season 6 where he knows it all (well, mostly) and accepts her as is ("God help me") is the peak of their relationship for me, and probably one of the key reasons it is my favorite season. I totally wasn't expecting that turn and him being secure in their match for what it is. I understand why it ended but that could've gone a bit longer in that state.

I always found that so strange. He should've returned to be a thorn in her side.

Edited September 2, 2024 by Vee

[kalbir]

The Val/Gary/Abby triangle ushered in Knots Landing peak era and drove so many storylines for years. The triangle worked not because of the triangle itself (let's keep it real here, Gary was no prize) but because of the character arcs it lead to. Val moved on with her life after losing her first love, Gary manned up, and Abby got the come up that she was all about.

[SoapDope]

I agree. Barry Jenner (Jeff) was on Dallas 1984-1986. He could have easily returned to KL after his Dallas stint was over. 

[titan1978]

We have talked about this before, but I love their relationship and now that I have seen most of the big moments play out again, I see the more nuanced sides too. Gary knows nothing he does would destroy Abby. He can hurt her, but not the total heartbreak it causes Val. That gives him some freedom to grow.

And I stand by the belief that Abby does love him. She used him too. I think the first chipping away in her love for him was when she sees him in detox after Ciji. But they come back from that, and even though she is stealing from him to set herself up in case it happened again, they find their way to being more like equals in season six. Until Val is pregnant, and she knows they are his. Once that happens, I think the love is pretty much gone.

As stupid as the Chopper Bunch episode is, Valene’s conversation about the police and the good ole boys could be used today.

[te.]

To be honest, once Laura got with Greg she pretty much became second fiddle to him. I thought the direction they seemed to take her in season 5, where she was poised to be a more morally ambigious character and not quite have the killer instinct that Abby had, but at the same wanting to get hers was interesting. Unfortunately, it just feels like they dropped the ball on her once she wasn't in the manic cliffhanger and taking her away from the cul de sac lessened her relationship with Val and Karen. 

[kalbir]

Somebody at Lorimar must have liked Barry Jenner as he was on all three CBS primetime soaps. He was on Falcon Crest for two episodes in 1989. 

For me and many of my generation (1990s teens), Barry Jenner will forever be Lieutenant Murtaugh of Family Matters.

[dragonflies]

 

[SoapDope]

Yes, he was great on Family Matters. (I was a 90's teen too). I turned 20 in 98.