1 hour ago, Liberty City said:

HUNT BLOCK!? Holy COW!!!!!

AND the male lead from Madonna's "Papa Don't Preach" music video?! Wowza.

2 hours ago, te. said:

They probably could've had him leave and have him let a younger boss (30-ish) take over the Sumner group. Have him or her be married and move into the cul de sac.

In the past, I've wondered why KL never introduced a grown son or illegitimate son for Greg - if nothing else than as a(nother) spoiler for Greg and Paige's relationship.  

Am I alone in the opinion that a primetime TV drama that's been on the air for 14 seasons is allowed to die rather than go through a massive overhaul in an effort to save it? Sometimes, it's not even about the content of the show, it's about the name alone. I figure by 1993, a new younger audience was never going to tune in to "Knots Landing," that show that their grandma watched over a decade earlier. When it's over, it's over.

I watched the S4 premiere and will have it on hold until I finish all of Flamingo Road, but man man man, that cliffhanger from S3 into S4. Just like what I said about Falcon Crest's first season finale, I love a cliffhanger that emphasizes reactions, next steps, and the aftermath of emotional bombshells that have long-term consequences over superficial events like massacres, crashes, and even shootings. There was never any doubt - Val leaving Gary meant that things were never going to be the same in the cul-de-sac, and so to spend that entire summer wondering just how different things would be...yikes. I will always let Ted Shackelford ruin my life, but man Gary is an a-hole, and Abby really is a thot. Val being assertive throughout these first few seasons is really great when you know that she'll become "Poor Val" later on.

Not sure how I feel about Laura moving back in with Richard, but it's really funny to me that Richard, Kenny, and Ginger carried on into S4, because it definitely seemed like all three characters were on their way to a natural departure by the end of the third season. I somehow like Kenny and Ginger a lot more now that they are generally happy with and supportive of one another, maybe because, for a hot minute, they are the "stable couple" on Seaview Circle while all of the older folks are spinning out of control. I can see why there's nothing left for them, though.

The S4 arrangement of the theme is probably my favorite. I love that the melody starts in the strings before it builds to the sax slinking in like, "Oh yes, baby, I'm still here."

Edited December 12, 20241 yr by All My Shadows

2 hours ago, Khan said:

In the past, I've wondered why KL never introduced a grown son or illegitimate son for Greg - if nothing else than as a(nother) spoiler for Greg and Paige's relationship.  

That would have made more sense than what they did with Claudia's son.

5 minutes ago, All My Shadows said:

Am I alone in the opinion that a primetime TV drama that's been on the air for 14 seasons is allowed to die rather than go through a massive overhaul in an effort to save it? Sometimes, it's not even about the content of the show, it's about the name alone. I figure by 1993, a new younger audience was never going to tune in to "Knots Landing," that show that their grandma watched over a decade earlier. When it's over, it's over.

I think if they had made the right changes a few years earlier, the show could have run up to the mid '90s or so, but we're mostly just speculating for fun. I find it more entertaining than anything in the last seasons, frankly.

Cathy vs. Joshua is not something I saw coming at all... at least in the way it's currently being portrayed. Wow.

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think if they had made the right changes a few years earlier, the show could have run up to the mid '90s or so, but we're mostly just speculating for fun. I find it more entertaining than anything in the last seasons, frankly.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean that it's not fun to speculate. I just think the show's expiration date was pretty much written in stone by the time it entered the 90s. Some of those episodes I watched in the initial run on the Primetime Soaps channel just seemed really tired, but I'm committing to watching the entire run. Anne and Claudia just don't come off as characters to watch for me.

41 minutes ago, All My Shadows said:

Am I alone in the opinion that a primetime TV drama that's been on the air for 14 seasons is allowed to die rather than go through a massive overhaul in an effort to save it?

No, because I said up front it really shouldn't have gone on and was for the best lol.

Edited December 13, 20241 yr by Vee

29 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

That would have made more sense than what they did with Claudia's son.

Gosh what a mess….between his death and Linda’s murder shortly afterwards, sheesh. 
 (I don’t know why Latham & Co. left the back half of S12 Knots a mess like they did.) Always felt Claudia got her karma as the show progressed.

I’ve always adored Kathleen Noone but Claudia is such a messy unlikable character as was Galina’s Kate. 
 

 

47 minutes ago, Vee said:

No, because I said up front it really shouldn't have gone on and was for the best lol.

I saw that and was gonna just quote reply to say that I agree with you lol but SON on a phone is the stuff of nightmares.

2 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

SON on a phone is the stuff of nightmares.

You ain't kiddin', lol!

But seriously.  I do agree that every series has a natural expiration date.  Like @DRW50 said, I think we're mostly just speculating for fun, not seriously suggesting that KL could or should have run longer.

On the other hand, there's nothing that says KL couldn't have run longer, had TPTB been wiser and set the show up for future generations.  But that would've required the kind of long-range thinking that I don't think primetime shows indulge in, quite frankly.

3 hours ago, All My Shadows said:

Anne and Claudia just don't come off as characters to watch for me.

I was good with Anne/Michelle Phillips until whoever decided to make her poor and homeless.  That storyline, along with everything Anne did to get off the streets, including hosting that call-in show (!), was a total misfire. 

Claudia, though, just came across as entirely too arch from the beginning.  She didn't have the layers that Abby had; and the longer Claudia stayed, the harder it became, I think, to justify why anyone even still cared about her.  I think Ann Marcus did a lot to humanize her and make her as something other than Kate's meddling mom or Greg's Machiavellian sibling, but it might have been a case of "too little, too late."

3 hours ago, DRW50 said:

That would have made more sense than what they did with Claudia's son.

"So much about Greg Sumner revolved around his complicated relationship with Paul Galveston," I said, at the time.  "What if Greg had found himself playing out a similarly complicated dynamic with his long-lost son?  Only this time, HE's the Paul Galveston in the relationship, and the son is the idealistic, young man, who is determined to build a legacy that will outlive his father's?"

Edited December 13, 20241 yr by Khan

Season 10 regaining momentum and a bit of lost ratings was a miracle.  The reinvention into a late 80s soap was successful.

However, Latham and co didn't properly plan how to maintain this quality once the Jill story concluded and Abby had departed the show.

And season 12 and first half of season 13 was an attempt at a soft early 90s reset with more topical issues mixed with soap opera melodrama.  

90210 and 1st season of Melrose had that early 90s social issue/very special episode vibes until both successfully tapped into that soapy sweet spot.

To me, Melrose inherited the mantle left behind by Dynasty and Knots Landing.  The apartment setting and young adult focus was a 90s update of KL's cul da sec and married couple focus format...and the OTT plot twists and cat fights was a 90s update of Dynasty's campy set ups and cat fights.

As previously stated, teens and twenty somethings were watching 90210 and Melrose Place..not Knots Landing or Dynasty.

Case in point, back in season 1 when Heather Locklear joined Melroes...my late 30 something mom had to explain to her early 20 something co workers who Heather Locklear was and promised they were in for a treat.

7 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Case in point, back in season 1 when Heather Locklear joined Melroes...my late 30 something mom had to explain to her early 20 something co workers who Heather Locklear was and promised they were in for a treat.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Heather Locklear grew so much as an actress once she stopped sounding so nasally, lol.

18 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Season 10 regaining momentum and a bit of lost ratings was a miracle.  

I don't know the timeline for when Donna Mills departure was announced, but perhaps lapsed viewers returned for Abby's exit story.

52 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

I was good with Anne/Michelle Phillips until whoever decided to make her poor and homeless.  That storyline, along with everything Anne did to get off the streets, including hosting that call-in show (!), was a total misfire. 

Claudia, though, just came across as entirely too arch from the beginning.  She didn't have the layers that Abby had; and the longer Claudia stayed, the harder it became, I think, to justify why anyone even still cared about her.  I think Ann Marcus did a lot to humanize her and make her as something other than Kate's meddling mom or Greg's Machiavellian sibling, but it might have been a case of "too little, too late."

 

 Completely agree with all of this!!! Well said @Khan