Generations Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Thanks @dc11786 . I have not seen that much of Generations but your summaries and analyses make me want to watch more.

[kalbir]

Maybe someone at NBC Daytime had beef w/ Bill Bell.

[dc11786]

Pretty sure it was on the writing team (most likely Sussman). There was another nepotism joke on in the story earlier. I believe said daughter of the producer replaced Jessica on the soap. I also believe there were some snarky remarks in some episode outline notes I have or have seen. I think the swipes are nothing different than what has been said on the soap boards for years.

In some ways, I think the dynamics of Jessica's story may mirror not word for word) the situation with Brenda Dickson. Barbara Rhoades' Jessica definitely gives off a Dickson-esque drag performance at times.  

Given the daytime landscape of 1990, it probably wasn't strong enough. It seems to fit in with my image of NBC daytime of that period, but that isn't really known as the halcyon days. I think the material surrounnding Ruth and Doreen tends to be incredibly strong and I really wish that Sussman had been given another two years to get the show into place. It probably would have ultimately been cancelled anywat, but I think a lot of the material had potential to work really well. 

It's crazy to think about how quickly the Whitmore family was deconstructed with the jettisoning of J.D. fairly early, which makes sense since his romance with a trans woman was nixed in pre-production. Younger male lead Cory McCallum was also quickly written out before even getting much of a story. Then, Rebecca and Trevor are both dumped around the same time and Laura seems to become supporting at best. Sam is the only one of any prominence until Peter returns and ultimately Chantal gets more of a presence once Debbi Morgan is cast.

[SoapDope]

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[Forever8]

Another episode of Generations has been uploaded.

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[DRW50]

Thanks.

[Liberty City]

FUN!!!

[dc11786]

This is the first time I am seeing this episode as my collection has fairly big gap in mid-January, 1990. This is a really powerful episode featuring the racism storyline. The ending is pretty effective. 

I had never heard Ruth speak about her desire to buy the house because of all the hard work her mother had done making the house a home. In this light, it puts a spin on Ruth's pursuit of the Whitmore, now Marshall, estate. I could see how Ruth would want own the house because of her mother more so than because she wanted to one up Laura McCallum although I feel some of that is still at play. It is highlighted by the interaction with Helen Mullens. 

Helen's story at this point has been a little bumpy, but this episode really brings together some things for me. In December, Helen is clearly uncomfortable with Ruth's plans to purchase the home and then we learn a little while later (during the spray paint incident) that Helen is also mortified by the actions. A short while later, we see Helen with a black eye. I don't think the domestic violence angle within the Mullens marriage is ever really discussed much on the boards, but it was another way of integrating some topical issues into the narrative. When Helen is defying Charles here, there is a bit more at stake that I wish was alluded to. 

The moment where Vivian arrives at the Whitmore home and finds Ruth placing a picture of the two of them on the mantle while Martin Luther King, Jr.'s speech plays is Generations at its best. Jonelle Allen rightfully gets recognized for her work, but Joan Pringle is equally strong in creating a strong, self-determined and at times selfish woman incredibly human and provoking sympathy for her from the audience. I wish both women had found more success on another daytime series. 

I was unaware that Vivian briefly lived with Sam and Adam after Monique and Jason married. I wish there was a bit more of that online. 

I also really enjoy George Shannon as Jordan Hale. He manages to balance the stern authoritarian with a dash of charisma in a way that I could see how fatherless Sam would be drawn to him. There is just a bit of a twinkle in his eye that I really enjoy. I know Robert Gentry is a bigger name and was considered a get, but I would have been interested in seeing Shannon play out the mobster stuff. I don't know if Shannon would have handled that as well, but I think he would have been interesting opposite Ron Harper.  

I often forgot how stunning Vivica A. Fox is as Maya. The Daniel Ruebens/life on the run story is another story from this period that is just really strong. 

I hope more of mid-January shows up because I have seen some edits of Sam and Kyle stuff from those weeks that I would love to see in context of the entire episodes.

[Jdee43]

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/05/arts/fans-mourn-loss-of-an-interracial-soap-opera.html

Fans Mourn Loss of an Interracial Soap Opera

By C. Gerald Fraser

March 5, 1991

Washed out by low ratings, television's first interracial soap opera devoted to the adventures and misadventures of black and white families, "Generations," has left behind a group of disappointed viewers, many of them black professionals, still yearning to tune in tomorrow.

After broadcasting 407 episodes, NBC took "Generations" off the air at the end of January. It had lasted for 13 months.

Describing the serial in 1989, as it was about to go on, the network said that it was "a contemporary daytime drama set in Chicago" and that it centered "on the relationships of two families -- one white, the Whitmores; one black, the Marshalls -- whose lives have been linked for generations."

Now it is gone for good. An NBC spokesman, Rob Maynor, said, "If it doesn't deliver, it doesn't stay on the air."

The cancellation annoyed a number of the show's regular viewers. One New Jersey working couple taped the 30-minute show daily for evening viewing. They were perturbed "on the day of the final segment to find out that most of it was superseded by a war bulletin, leaving a seemingly inexplicable ending and adding insult to injury."

'It Was Different'

The cancellation also upset Marsha Hunt, a Philadelphia novelist. "It was a very good show," she said in a telephone interview. "It was different. The story line was not who's sleeping with whom. It showed a real relationship between the two women."

Ms. Hunt did not rest on her disappointment. "I don't sit back," she said. "When people say blacks don't write in, I'm not one of them. When they say blacks don't call in, I'm not one of them." She wrote, she called and she organized "The Coalition to Save 'Generations.' "

She said she had 12 people in 12 states "running groups" that had sent "around a thousand" save-"Generations" letters to local stations, NBC, prospective syndicators and PBS, which they view as a potential broadcaster of the serial.

Ms. Hunt voiced several complaints, echoed in the letters. One was that the serial had been broadcast in poor time slots. In New York, it came on at 12:30 P.M., opposite the No. 1 soap, "The Young and the Restless." In some cities, Ms. Hunt said, "Generations" came on at 2:30 A.M. She also said that the soap had not been given enough time on the air to develop an audience.

Were Ratings Accurate?

She questioned whether the show's low Nielsen ratings accurately reflected the number of viewers. "There are few Nielsen boxes in homes in minority communities," she said. A Nielsen Media Research vice president, Jack Loftus, said yesterday that 11 percent of households in the Nielsen population sample are black.

Mr. Maynor, the NBC spokesman, said the network had dropped "Generations" "because it didn't get the size of audience we wanted."

"We wanted more than we had," he continued. "It was the lowest-rated soap opera on the air. It had the smallest audience, it didn't deliver for advertisers and it wasn't attractive to affiliates."

Consequently, he said, the network does not intend to revive the show.

Creator of the Show

Sally Sussman, a writer who had received two Emmy award nominations as a member of the writing staff of "The Young and the Restless," created "Generations," serving as both its executive producer and head writer.

In a telephone interview, she said, "I came up with the idea four years ago and sold it to NBC to create the first racially balanced show." She said it had been well received .

"Most shows are given more than two years to find an audience," she said. "The nature of the soap opera business is that it takes two years to find itself and find an audience. The current climate at NBC, in terms of economics, did not lend itself to continuing the show. It was expensive to produce and had a soft advertising market. And they decided to cancel. It was a valid reason from their perspective, but I think it was short-sighted."

In New York, the editor in chief of Soap Opera Weekly, Mimi Torchin, agreed. "It was intelligent and fast moving," she said. "A new show always gets off to a slow start. They're always terrible in the beginning. Until you are in these people's lives, know the background, it's hard to get involved, until you care about them."

The probationary period for most serials is, she agreed, usually two years. For example, she said, NBC dropped "Texas" only after 28 months. She also cited "Loving" and "Santa Barbara" as two long-running soaps that have never achieved high ratings.

Ms. Torchin, speaking of the "Generations" cancellation, said: "Blacks are only 11 percent of the total viewing audience, and there was not enough of a black audience to watch it." She added: "It was known as 'the black soap' in the heartland. There's still a lot of racism and whether it was racism per se, there was resistance."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note that this article was wrong as to how long the show lasted and the number of episodes produced! The show was on for 22 months with around 470 episodes produced. 

Edited October 5, 2024 by Jdee43

[dc11786]

Marsha Hunt mentions it was about the friendship between two women. I think this is often something that is downplayed in recent years and wasn't always as present as Hunt suggests on other occasions. 

In the beginning, that friendship was between Vivian Potter and her former employer Rebecca Whitmore. Their connection was the basis of the ties between the Marshall and Whitmore/McCallum families. I don't think we got many (if any) scenes of the two women just sitting around chatting about life, which is a shame because both women could have used that. Vivian's brood was always in the thick of things with Marshall Ice Cream going national, Ruth's desire to achieve financial success at a level of her white peers, and Adam's involvement with the wrong women. Rebecca was worrying about Sam's future, her own career advancement at the law firm, and should have been worried about the cracks in her daughter Laura's marriage. It would have also allowed a greater counterpoint to the dynamic between their daughters Laura Whitmore McCallum and Ruth Potter Whitmore. 

I was thinking just yesterday how Gail Ramsey felt playing Laura, who was viewed by Ruth as being racist. The Bible makes it very clear that Laura feels superior to Ruth, but the basis of that storyline, a love triangle between Ruth, Laura, and a plastic surgeon who had been a high school friend of both, was nixed. There are still times that Ruth openly addresses Laura's racial and class snubbing from their youth.At times, Laura appears repetentant especially when Ruth is trying to join the Chicago's Women's Arts Council where Laura is a member. I also suspect that had the proposed Sam / Adam romance played out, Laura would have made her opinions very clear. 

Laura seems to get lost in the transition from "Young and the Restless" to "Days of our Lives." The onscreen story seemed to be heading for an affair between Laura's husband Trevor and Laura's best friend, Jessica Gardner (when Barbara Rhoades was still in the role). Afterwards, Laura doesn't get much to do other than the fallout of Trevor's actual (mostly offscreen) affair and then a C-level romance with Martin Jackson's business associate Joel Resnick (played by Rick Lohman). I know Laura was set to be given a bit more story in early 1991 with the revelation that Chantal Marshall was her half-sister, but that story didn't play out before the cancellation. 

Thankfully, I don't feel Joan Pringle's Ruth suffered the same fate. Ruth remained front and center, as she should have, throughout the remainder of the series. It is her friendship with Doreen Jackson that Marsha Hunt is referring to in that article. Ruth and Doreen had both elevated themselves from much humbler beginnings as Ruth had been the daughter of a maid for one of the old money Chicago families and Doreen had started out singing in nightclubs before marrying old money Martin Jackson. Doreen wasn't intended to be a major player in the begining. In the Bible, she is briefly mentioned as Martin's soon-to-be ex-wife who spends most of her time shopping. The fact that Jonelle Allen and Sally Sussman Morina shape Doreen into the leading attraction she was is the power of soap opera. 

Ruth and Doreen are initially connected through business as Martin Jackson wants to take Marshall's Ice Cream national. Then, Ruth and Doreen connect through their work on the Arts Council while Doreen engages in her affair with Ruth and Henry's son, Adam. The friendship between the two women is one of the treasures throughout the show's run. In the era of "Steel Magnolias" and "Fried Green Tomatoes," Ruth and Doreen are the show's forgotten super couple. 

Each woman has their own thread with Doreen's pregnancy leading to an even more complicated marriage to her husband, Martin, who learns Adam is the father of his daughter, Danielle, and sets out to destroy the Marshalls and Doreen over time. In the process, Doreen becomes involved with Daniel Reubens, a doctor falsely accused of blowing up a pharmaceutical lab who has been on the run for decades. Doreen and Daniel's romance is complicated by Daniel's daughter, Maya, who has become involved with Adam Marshall. It's all a fascinating web of dynamics that was potent for drama and sometimes used very well and sometimes not. 

Meanwhile, Ruth achieves her dream of owning the Whitmore estate, which is quickly threatened by her neighbors the Mullens, who instigate a campaign of racism against the Marshalls starting with vandalism and escalating into a bombing at the Marshall's housewarming party to launch the February, 1990 sweeps. She encourages her son Adam's romance with Maya and follows her daughter's prosecution of footballer Eric Royal. She seems to be finding a level of happiness in her new life as the queen of the Marshall estate, formerly the Whitmore estate. 

By the fall of 1990, the women are carrying the show if not in terms of time onscreen but definitely in terms of story quality. Doreen's world is quickly unravelling with Martin trying to end her romance with Daniel before planning to whisk her and Danielle away from Chicago. Martin has also planned to defraud the Marshalls in the process and sell their company out from under them and abscond with the funds. In Martin's parting gift, he sends a video to the Marshall's telling them that Danielle is their granddaughter, Adam's son. This destroys the bedrock of the show: Doreen and Ruth's friendship. 

In a parallel plot, the groundwork is being laid for the revelation that Ruth has kept her own paternity secret for decades: Chantal Marshall is Peter Whitmore's daughter. Peter returns to Chicago just as Ruth, Henry, and Vivian start having conversations about a secret they have all been keeping which is eventually revealled to be that Henry isn't Chantal's biological father. This is a fact that Henry was very much aware of, but he had never known who the girl's father was. Now, with Peter's return, the news of a prior dalliance between Peter and a barely legal (or possibly underage) Ruth comes to light setting into motion a reveal that should have shaken the core of both families. 

Ruth and Peter were getting closer. Doreen was interested in Peter's jazz club, the Music Box. Everything was set in motion to very dramatic once Ruth's secret was revealed. Add in the final moments with Doreen and Henry in bed and I am left disappointed that we didn't get years of Ruth and Doreen instead of months.

[John]

So was recasting roles with Debbi Morgan, James Reynolds & Dorothy Lyman to try and get their fans to watch

The previous actors in my opinion did well in their roles. 

[dc11786]

I haven't looked into Morgan too much, but my guess is that she became available after leaving "All My Children" and Jorn Winter worked quickly to snag her. Debbi Morgan is a phenomenal actress, but I don't think Sharon Brown was ever given a shot to really sink her teeth into much juicy story of her own. I thought Brown was good as a supporting role in the Doreen / Adam / Danielle story as well as passing her chemistry test with Rick Fitts' Martin Jackson. Martin and Chantal would have been interesting. 

Reynolds, like Morgan, I think arrived to a fairly new story that the previous actor was probably fine with playing. Henry started having heart issues around the summer of 1990 which lead up to his heart attack in bed with Doreen in the final episode. I have to imagine this might have been what would have led Chantal to learn Henry wasn't her father. 

Lyman wouldn't have been on the show long, I suspect. Her character was brought back for Peter Whitmore's return and the inevitable secret that Chantal was Peter's daughter. Gail Ramsey was set to return in early 1991 as Laura and a recast J.D. was on the way. I am curious which of Winter's AMC pals would have landed the JD role.

Crowley had been gone almost a year before Lyman assumed the role. Morgan, Gentry, and Stacey Nelkins all appeared as recast in about the same week in March, 1990. James Reynolds arrived in August or September. Lyman was December. 

[Forever8]

I can't remember if these episode(s) were uploaded before or not, but the Bygone Era TV has uploaded the July 30 & 31 1990 episodes. 

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[DRW50]

Thanks.

[NothinButAttitude]