Generations Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Thanks. Kudos to Vivica as I don't think she ever looked down on her soap work even when she was doing very well. 

[dc11786]

That was a nice read. And timely, for me. I received a copy of the bible for "Generations." It's pretty intensive; it's over 300 pages. The biggest shock to me, in just scanning it, is the Doreen was not originally a main player. She is listed under supporting characters as Martin Jackson's ex-wife. From my quick dip, she is barely present in the story. Her main function appears to be making Martin sympathetic (they are in midst of a divorce and she's spending all his money) while he pursuing Ruth Marshall (again, roads not taken from soap bibles to onscreen story). Martin was also listed as a supporting player. 

Rob Donnelly was also not part of the original concept for the show. Though it seems their are origins of Rob in two different minor characters (Professor Donovan and Rob Raelko). It looks like that career paths for Adam and Sam were switched. Originally, Sam was going to go into advertising while Adam was going to become a male model. 

There were several major characters in the bible that never materialized onscreen. Jacquelyn Marshall was mentioned onscreen, but never appeared. She was originally a main character as was her husband, cop Kevin Grant. Also, Chantal had a married love interest, David Jordan, who worked in the State Attorney's office with her. Another character in the main cast was Lisa Morgan, a teacher who would have been involved romantically with J.D. There was also a character Dr. Greg Sutton, a white plastic surgeon who was a childhood friend of Laura's who Ruth had been romanticlaly interested in. 

Also, several later additions were intended to appear much earlier. Peter Whitmore was suppose to arrive just as Rebecca's romance with Lloyd Bradfield heated up, with his second wife Francesca in tow. Eric Royal was suppose to be part of the original cast, though his name was Eric Taylor in the bible. 

It's clear that cuts were made for a variety of reasons, but mostly to trim down the large cast. Chantal had a whole storyline which was later reused in the second year with Eric Royal though it looks like the story was reconfigured. Though this meant that Jacquelyn, Kevin, and David didn't make the final cut. Also, Greg didn't make it onscreen though it seems that a lot of his function was given to Peter when they decided Peter, not Henry, fathered Chantal.  Corey McCallum was set to have a flirtation with Jessica Gardner, but I imagine that story made NBC skittish. Probably not as skittish as others though. Lisa's story involved the revelation that she had been male and had undergone sexual reassignment surgery so that story was probably vetoed by NBC. Peter's arrival was late in the bible so it was probably just prolonged when the show's initial plots weren't generating the energy that was expected. 

I can definitely see though why what ended up onscreen was so messy early on because the reconfiguration of so many major pieces of the original groundwork changed.

[Khan]

There's a reason why I've posted that catfight as often as I have on this board.  And I'm not even a GENERATIONS fan.

I have to agree with Sally Sussman, though: the reason why Doreen and Maya's catfight worked so well, and why so many others that followed didn't, was because of how much the writers built toward it.  In fact, you could say the same thing about the original catfight between DYNASTY's Alexis and Krystle: in both cases, it worked, because the writers put IN the work.

I'm not gonna poo-pooh the idea of a GENERATIONS revival.  All I'm gonna do is quote Mama Khan: "If you're gonna do something, do it right."  Up the production values; get fresh, young talent of color working on both sides of the camera; and for God's sake, create an opening sequence that doesn't suck, lol.

Thank you, @Vee, for sharing that article - and thank you, @dc11786, as well, for sharing with us all that interesting stuff about the show's original bible.  I think it's a shame that a lot of that stuff didn't make it to air, because it actually sounds really good!

[j swift]

For me, what is so entertaining is that it feels as if the author was trying to write a campy ode to soap opera catfights. But the actors actually flipped the script and told the context of the scene and how difficult it was to film.  So that we couldn't help but respect them for their efforts.  I think it is a triumph any time that soaps that underestimated, and then someone notes why they deserve their place in culture. 

[Liberty City]

Kudos to Fox for still believing in the soap genre, and for keeping in contact with Michele Val Jean. I love that.

[dragonflies]

Just think we might not have gotten Kristoff on YR if Generations hadn't been cancelled

[Liberty City]

My thoughts exactly; things worked how they were meant to work.

[Chris B]

I am surprised EW did an article on Generations of all things. I've always said I think soaps are more valuable to streamers than they admit and I'd love to see Generations make a return on Peacock. It could either be a good low cost primetime reboot or even a daytime companion to Days. The original had such a short run it would be easy to add for people to binge and if you get back Vivica, Jonelle, Debbi Morgan and Kelly Rutheford you'd have strong enough names for people to sample it. Would definitely be a smart move for Peacock, but it all depends on if Sussman can get in the room and pitch it.

[dc11786]

The first three (of ten) sections of the Bible cover Rebecca Simpson Whitmore's history, Henry Marshall & Ruth Potter Marshall's history, and the story between the two at the start. I will give a little bit of info from each section and then breaking the story down into three threads: 1) Rebecca's quest for partnership involving her romantic involvement with British attorney Lloyd Bradfield, 2) the business machinations involving the nationalization of Marshall's ice cream and 3) the purchase of the Whitmore estate. 

Rebecca's biography recounts the story of her parents' generation in slim detail, enough to explain why the dynamics in the Peter and Rebecca marriage led to where it was. Thomas and Nora Simpson had two children, Thomas Jr. and Rebecca. Thomas served in World War II and died leaving the Senior without a male heir. When Rebecca married Peter after a brief courtship, Thomas immediately groomed Peter as his successor, but Peter wasn't built for business (despite his desire). When Thomas dies, Peter makes many bad deals in the Simpson construction and development business, he makes bad investments in the market, and also gambles too much. 

By the point things have gotten back, Peter has two nearly grown children. Peter is appearing more and more aloof. Rebecca is fairly desperate to revive her marriage and seduces her husband which is how she ends up pregnant with the much younger Stephanie, who J.D. later nicknames Sam. The baby seems to keep a coolness to the Whitmore marriage, but the farther Peter declines in his fortune (including mortgaging the house), the more things fall apart. Peter just disappears one day during a snowstorm never to return. 

Rebecca picks up the pieces and sells the house because they could either keep their home or nothing else. Rebecca decides to move to a less posh neighborhood and work her way back up by becoming an attorney. Rebecca hasn't been romantically involved with any other man since Peter. 

Meanwhile, Henry Marshall grew up the son of Preston and Etta Marshall who had moved North from the South for better economic opportunities. Etta found work immediately and Preston eventually was able to obtain work at a factory. Henry was a baseball star in high school who's dreams were eventually disrupted when his friends roped him into a situation selling stolen goods. Henry spent time in jail for a crime he had been unaware he was committing. After a brief stint in jail, he got out and wandered a bit before meeting Ruth Potter. 

Ruth's mother Vivian Potter had divorced her daughters' father and went to work for Nora Simpson as live-in help after having worked for many years as a servant in many different North Shore homes. Nora was known as a terse boss who would often terminate her servants employment at will. Vivian managed to stay on and Nora got sick and died leaving Vivian to work for Rebecca, who elected to keep her on. Ruth and her sister had been raised by Vivian's sister after the divorce while Vivian had spent time raising Rebecca's children until Nora died and Rebecca allowed Vivian to bring her daughters' to live with her in the Simpson/Whitmore home. 

Ruth grew up envious of Laura Whitmore, who was two years her junior. Ruth wanted to live the good life and the Bible even states that Ruth wanted to be white. Ruth became involved with Henry and became pregnant before marriage with Chantal. Ruth considered an abortion, but Vivian demanded the two marry. Ruth and Henry went off to live before Ruth moved back to the Whitmore home with Chantal where she finished high school with Laura. There was a brief romantic interest in Greg Cooper, a lower income white classmate who loved and was spurned (only because she didn't know) by Laura. 

Ruth helped Henry build the business which included three to four locations by the start of the series including a North Shore location catering to the white clientele. Ruth was very much about moving up and gaining social status. Henry strived to eventually own his own baseball team. 

This covers the bigger points of the characters' histories. Chantal was always the oldest, but was Henry's child. Sam's age gap was due to Rebecca's desire to save her marriage. The Ruth/Greg attraction was clearly appropriated later on for the Peter/Ruth affair which is a bit juicier but also makes Peter look like a creep. The dynamic with Vivian raising Rebecca's children and not her own really puts Ruth's resentment in a different light for me. I don't know if that made it to air, but it makes Ruth's emotional state much more sympathetic. 

In terms of story, Rebecca's attempt to rise at the law firm plays out pretty much the same way. Rebecca wants partnership, her boss pushes her to date Lloyd Bradfield to secure a contract with a large British law firm, and Rebecca ends up losing out on a partnership. A minor story change was that Rebecca's colleague at the firm was Chris Michaelson in the Bible. On air, his name was Chris Mendoza. Also, the tailend of the story sees Rebecca going with Lloyd on a vacation to London where she was going to be captured in the society pages and be spotted by Peter Whitmore, who was going to be vacationing with his Italian second wife Francesca. This clearly didn't happen. 

The business story plays out significantly differently than what plays on air. Joel arranges the meeting between Martin and Henry, but Martin is suppose to be a part of a series of investors involved in the project (none named). Ruth was going to be consulted on all business matters as she had developed a real mind for business and a lonely Martin (in the midst from divorcing his plot point wife Doreen) would become attracted to her. Martin and Henry were to become professional and romantic rivals (unknown to Henry on both counts) as Martin continued to undermine Henry in order to be top dog in the business world. 

Martin and Henry would still argue over the quality of ingredients and the first quarter figures would show that Henry was right. Later, Martin was going to arrange new facilities in order to ensure that Henry would default on the rent and have to sell Marshall Ice Cream to Martin.

A bigger moment in the story was going to be Martin's attempt to discredit Henry by bringing him to an Ivy League business dinner where Henry was suppose to be out of place, but people would be intrigued by the man's self-made success. Also, Martin would be upset when his role in Marshall's Ice Cream going national was ignored by a business magazine. 

Rebecca was to hold the patent rights to the ice cream and was involved in handling some of the legal papers about the start up of the company.  

In the meantime, Martin was going to romance Ruth, who was only going along with the meals in order to try to smooth over the rough edges in the relationship between Martin and Henry. Ruth doesn't appear to be romantically interested in Martin, but they would share a kiss. 

On the actual show, I don't think the Martin-Ruth romance was attempted at all. There were some attempts at Martin-Chantal, but that didn't go anywhere. The dinner scene never happened. The factory space was an issue, but it played out very differently with Henry not wanting the factory to leave the south side because it would put people out of work. This issue was resolved in a pool game where Henry hustled Martin. I believe Martin went behind Henry's back and changed the ingredients in the ice cream which led to more issues. 

In the final thread of the initial story, Ruth was going to be interested in the house, but it would be bought by Henry for Ruth probably to keep her from leaving him (in his mind) from Martin, who would also be interested in purchasing the Whitmore estate. A third party was also interested in the purchase, Mr. Hassan, who had been kicked out in the first episode. Ruth was going to plan a big housewarming party and Mr. Hassan seems set to destroy the event with many people present. 

I'll share more as I continue to make my way through it. 

[DRW50]

Thanks @dc11786

[j swift]

@dc11786 I am fascinated by your collection of soap opera bibles.  Do they read like a novel?  Are the formats similar from show to show and writer to writer?  And do you know what stage of development they were written in (are there after network notes revisions)?

And do you have them in paper or digital form?  I would encourage you to scan it, just for posterity, not for sharing.  Are they copywrite protected?

[dc11786]

@j swift Every Bible reads different that I've seen. Most tend to lean into a section on characters and then a separate section revolving around story. Some writers go for a different approach.

James Elward for "The Young Marrieds" proposed an extensive canvas full of many underdeveloped characters but rich in action driven plot most of which was not used on the actual series. In his revised bible, he goes the approach of character biographies  for the whittled down cast which deemphasizes action and focuses on the emotional state as it relates to their personal history. From what I've seen online of Irna Phillips' bibles, she tends to lean into the feeling of the show and the essence so I suspect Elward's revised bible was written after his meeting with Irna Philips. 

I've only seen about half of the "Santa Barbara" Bible which detailed the story. A separate section detailed character backstories. 

Tony Holland's Bible for "Little England" or whatever "Eldorado" was originally titled was based on characters biographies that detailed backstory (I believe), current story, and at least one tidbit that could be used to fuel later stories. 

Palumbo's bible for "Rituals" is pretty standard. It is noteable to me that there is an emphasis on cross promotion just like the "Santa Barbara" Bible. Nixon also considered building up to the Summer Olympics preemption in her Bible. 

Nixon's Bible for "Love," the original title of "Loving," doesn't really examine much outside the three story structure (Mike's story, Jack/Lily's story, and Merrill's story) to the point that characters are left underdeveloped unless they are critical to telling story in the opening set of stories. 

Sussman's approach is wildly different and presents a character or character set biography framed in a snapshot of their current story. For example, the introduction to Rebecca Whitmore's biography describes in detail the first scene where Rebecca goes to visit the Whitmore estate on her way to see Hugh Gardner and finds the Hassan family being evicted by the bank. Then, we get the story.

Sussman has 10 chapters to her Bible which ends with a proposed story called "The Party" which I believe is the housewarming party when the Marshalls purchase the old Whitmore estate. I haven't read it yet, but I suspect this is the original version of the story that becomes the racism story. In this version, instead of racists bombing the Whitmore estate there appears that there will be an attack by Mr. Hassan, the previous owner of the Whitmore estate. 

What I have is a mixed of digital and print. I am terrible about keeping things organized but I am thinking my next project will have to be digitalization. 

One things that across the board I see is that Bible rarely reflect what happens onscreen in that there are significant directional changes in terms of character and story. Sometimes things play out better on paper and sometimes they play out better on screen. They also tend to be ambitious and things are set to be cut as a result so stories on impotence ("Loving"), Alzheimer's Disease, the issues facing the trans community ("Generations"), child abuse ("Rituals"), and mental health issues ("Santa Barbara") get cut by the network or watered down immensely. 

[Sapounopera]

Thank you so much. The Whitmore estate story reminds me of Lovers and Friends (also set in Chicago) and the Pat-Laura/Vivian-Ruth dynamic has an Imitation of Life vibe. 

[Forever8]

The channel rogershope uploaded an episode of Generations from 1989. 

 

[Forever8]

rogershope uploaded another episode of Generations from May of 1989.