EastEnders: Discussion Thread

[MichaelGL]

You make a lot of good points, especially about McFadden, who should have brought it at some point between September and now (Sept. when I started watching again) but didn't. I agree, I have some major reservations about the actor that plays Ben, I was hoping Kirkwood would recast the role before he brought him back again, unfortunately that isn't happening.

Edited July 21, 2011 by MichaelGL

[Skylover]

actually really like Joshua Pascoe in the role of Ben. I think both of you make excellent points about the character. I know I'm in a minority liking Ben (and Josh) but I think the way the character always seems so awkward around others is part of the character. He seems very anti-social and bitter about his life, which I think is an aspect Joshua has brought to the role. I think he's become a lot more complex since Joshua took on the role and I never really liked Charlie's version.

I'm not sure about Ben being a villain for the show, and I think it seems unlikely. I don't want his sexuality to cloud the way they write for the character, but I don't want him to be an all-out villain either. Somewhere inbetween would be good. I think it's a good direction to take the character in what with the massive contrast between him and Phil, but I don't think it's the right time to do it. With Christian and Syed featuring in such high profile stories and having just had a huge story involving the Masoods not accepting their gay soon, it's a bit overkill for the same to happen with Phil and Ben, but you can't get away from that if the storyline is done now because that's naturally the way he will react.

It's also not the right time because the writers still need to give the character time to settle in and need to give the audience time to get used to him. If this was a new character I don't think the backlash would have been so prominent, there's no getting away from the fact that the contrast between Charlie and Joshua has caused a lot of fan to be unhappy, and understandably. As you say, Santer always wanted Ben to be a joke, but it seems that Kirkwood doesn't want that, and time to develop is what's needed for the character to build, and the audience to form some sort of attachment. Though I guess with the age that he's at, it's understandable that they'd do the story now...

[DRW50]

I think Joshua's version has, or had, more potential than Charlie's, but they spent too much time just having him staring at people or glaring.

If this is about Ben, and not just about Phil, then the story has better potential, but I just think this is the wrong character. I really was hoping they would avoid cliche and make Ben straight. Phil would struggle with a straight son who isn't his ideal, because he can't say Ben never had a chance.

[All My Shadows]

I really can't see this not being all about Phil, Phil's reaction, how having a gay son affects Phil, etc. This will be the reason why Phil does his next incredibly repulsive and violent thing. It's really just Phil's square, and he's letting everyone else live there.

Lauren as bi would have been totally believable.

[DRW50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sL2SNUP9PoU

[Ben]

I stumbled across that promo just yesterday - how weird. I wish they would do another show like that, that goes behind-the-scenes. I love those kinds of shows.

AMS: ITA about how believable Lauren would have been if she was bi. I think that would have been really interesting to explore, as you don't see many portrayals of bisexuals on TV these days; everyone is always gay, no matter how many straight folk they've had. I am aware that soaps have had bi characters in the past, but that's the whole point, there's no-one around today. I think the only bi character I can name on current TV, is Kalinda from The Good Wife, and they don't come more awesome than her.

I think this Ben story is being played at the wrong time. I actually wish they weren't going there with him. And then there's the fact it will be all about Phil, as they've stated pretty much that's it will be about how Phil deals with it.

[DRW50]

I would have had this as a bi storyline and given the story to Jay. That would be more interesting and spare us the tedious Ben/Phil nonsense. They could even have Jay develop feelings for Max. I would take that just to see Max's face!

I barely watch any of the British soaps anymore...I love your posts so much and I always miss interacting with you regarding the stories and characters. If you have any thoughts on Corrie or Emmerdale please share them.

I also made some comments about the Family Affairs pilot, if you have any response to those.

[Ben]

That's kinda sad, Carl, that you don't really watch any more (I don't blame you, especially with regards to Corrie). Emmerdale is hit and miss, but will deliver the odd few good scenes every other episode. I was all set to hate the Declan/Katie pairing, but I actually quite like them. The show is not the same any more; I don't like the tone, or the look and feel of the show, and I find I don't agree with SB's vision for the show.

EE has slipped into that same pattern recently, where episodes are not that great over all, but will turn out the odd few awesome scenes. Those Syed/Masood scenes from last week (I think) were awesome; they had heart. I was all set to tune out of Friday's show, due to the horrendous Max/Tanya affair, but Vanessa saved it, and carried the entire episode. Anything nice about Tanya has been thrown under the bus for this stupid story with Max, and the way she treats Rainie, and gets away with it, is terrible. But I love Vanessa, and wish she was staying in place of Tanya. V's OCD has flared up again, but this time it was more pronounced, and then she got attacked, and ZL played those scenes brilliantly. If you can, watch those scenes with Vanessa.

For some reason, I'm liking Lauren, now. But, I'm quite surprised at some of the responses that the Abi/Jay story has received, especially from girls who think Abi was wrong to say no to Jay when they were about to have sex, and see her actions as "leading him on".

Jay as bi would be better than the predictable Ben/Phil story any day. IMO, I wouldn't the story with either of them right now. Or ever.

I'll have to watch those FA clips some time soon. I never watched the show from the beginning, so it will be weird seeing the show look like this, and the not the London-based one that I fell in love with.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Ben

[Bright Eyes]

Who was Donna again?

[MichaelGL]

Kathy Beale's daughter. She was the product of rape from when Kathy was 14. Donna was a druggie with quite a manipulative streak. I believe at one point Dot took her in.

Edited July 27, 2011 by MichaelGL

[Bright Eyes]

Lola and the Moons show, mixed in with Tanya and Max being assh*les, is not good television.

[Skylover]

I have to agree with you to a certain extent, Amello. On the one hand, I think the show desperately needs to bring in some eye candy and bolster some of the existing families but, on the other hand, I don't think the Moons are the right family to build, and I don't know if the casting has been that great. On the whole reaction to the new Moons has been very split, some loving them and some hating them. I think in terms of looks they've done well, as the boys do look like they could be related, but both actors don't seem to be very natural, especially the actor who plays Anthony, as he came across as very wooden in his debut episode. Having said all this, I will give them time to grow as they could work out well for the show in the long run. Who could have seen that Ronnie and Roxy would become such good characters (I know some don't like Roxy but I do and I think many others do).

I have a feeling these two could be characters that really come into their own and we could get some mileage from them. Though I could see it going the other way and them being axed in a year or so. I also hate Michael, and it's clear they've chosen David Essex for his star as he's also not a very natural actor. Lola seems very theatrical but she's started to improve in the last few episodes. I like that they're trying to revitalise Billy's character (which, granted they've been doing for years; I personally think they should never have gotten rid of Honey) and I think it's working with Julie and Lola. Only they've now made the idiotic decision to get rid of Julie.

Seeing how wooden the Moons were in the pub scenes made me wish the PTB were holding on to the talented actors like Zoe Lucker. A terrible mistake getting rid of Vanessa.

[DRW50]

The writing tends to make a lot of people seem wooden - people said the same about Vanessa.

She choked on her own vomit in Dot's living room. That led to the scene where, after Peter said she deserved to die, Dot started hitting him with her purse.

[Skylover]

God, I wish I could watch some more of the early years from some of the stuff I've read in this thread. It sounds like they did some really hard-hitting stuff, and not just stuff that was for the sake of drama. What year did this Donna character feature? They definitely seem to have upped the ante as far as continuity is concerned.

You're so right about the writing making the acting seem forced, Carl. Such as that line from Anthony about chewing gum. It's like the interaction between new and existing characters is so forced and isn't done in a very organic way. Having said that, Anthony seemed wooden in his scene with Michael too.

[DRW50]

Donna was a fascinating character. It's too bad most of the clips are always taken off Youtube. They were all up at one time. Then some were put up again by a Danielle/Ronnie fan, only to be taken off again by Youtube.

When Donna came to Walford she didn't tell anyone who she was. She went to work at the Vic. She kept telling lies about her life that Pat caught her in. She was also used and strung along by men like Wicksy (Pat's ladykiller son). She started calling the Samaritans all the time, coming up with stories, because she wanted to talk to Kathy. Finally Kathy figured it out and when she confronted Donna Donna told her that she was her daughter and she'd come to Walford to find her. Kathy said they couldn't be close, because of the rape. Kathy wanted to keep all this quiet, but Donna began flirting with Ian in order to force Kathy to tell everyone the truth.

Donna continued to limp along until Kathy was raped for a second time. Donna tried to comfort her, and Kathy lashed out at her, as she was a reminder of Kathy's first rape. Between this, Donna's lack of self-worth, the way Wicksy treated her, etc. she began falling into drug use. She dated Rod, who liked to try to save screwed up women, but he couldn't stop her from getting hooked on heroin. After he left her, she also began turning tricks. She was almost gang raped. She destroyed the marriage of Sue and Ali Osman after she told Sue that Ali had been paying her for sex. She spread rumors that Colin had AIDS. And so on.

Finally when she had no one else she went to live with Dot. After one last meeting with Kathy, where Kathy couldn't give her what she needed, Donna overdosed, with the implication it was deliberate. Dot came home and found her on the floor, vomit beside her.