Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

I'm not sure. I think it was the early 90s.

Do you think they should have written Ann out?

I also wonder why they brought Lily back. I guess it was just as a foil to Jack/Stacey but it must have seemed a little random.

All the stuff about Gwen's secret son with Clay also seemed random to me, reading about it, then the actor left because they weren't using him, yet they still recast, then he was killed off. I would have kept him on and had him compete with Curtis.

What did you think of the Curtis actors? I was surprised when I learned Curtis was the only soap character to fight in the Gulf War. Yet by the time I started watching he was just this sad crazy guy who was mercy killed.

Edited March 4, 2011 by CarlD2

[SFK]

I'm foggy, but Cabot "died" and reappeared as an old guy wearing regular clothes and a baseball cap hanging out in the park. I remember the image of that, him sitting on the park bench talking to some stranger, yet I can't remember if he had amnesia or was faking his death and now in hiding (in Corinth no less) living as an average Joe. Actually, I think he did in fact have his wits about him. Eric?

I agree that James Horan looked too young for Clay and he was way creepy which kind of works when you consider the whole mistaken identity weirdness thing, yet I'd think that one minute with Alex/Clay and the Aldens would be like, "Wow, you're so much cooler and not at all twisted and strange like your old self." Dennis Parlato and Larkin Malloy felt a lot more like one's idea of Clay, though that would have been a great role for Michael Zaslow who would have been a nice mix of Malloy's and Parlato's dastardly elegance and Horan's creep factor. Plus the tall lanky thing favors Wesley Addy.

[LoyaltoAMC]

Never clear why they fired the original Ann, Shannon Eubanks. She had a very regal quality about her. Her replacement Callan White was dull as dishwater. Come to think of it, they probably decided to take Ann in a more "victim" direction, and Eubanks might not have been right for that.

Bringing Lily back as a homewrecker never really worked. It was a totally different character from when Jennifer Ashe had played her.

I thought Chris Marcantel was great as Curtis. He was a fine actor. I think those original young actors--Marcantel, Perry Stephens, Jen Ashe, LMT and Susan Walters worked really well together. Some nice dynamics. I also liked Stan Albers' interpretation. I had a little crush on him when he was on AMC as Laura's hit and run driver, so I was a little biased

[SFK]

I don't remember Ann, I only know her from the pilot where she seems like a Lemay character. I wonder if she was difficult to write for with Isabelle and Gwyn and other ladies on the canvas especially when it seemed like she had a quiet energy that could have teetered on boring.

[EricMontreal22]

Yes. One of the episodes--I think Hannah found him? Or was it Steffi?--is on youtube.

She's in that 1988 episode online where the new Lily is flirting with Jack... Man I wish I could see the pilot--I used to have it saved from WOST but never got around to watching it and don't seem to have it anymore...

[SFK]

A few pages back, I linked a site with screencaps of the movie, whoever runs that site must have it. Look out for it on Amazon/Ebay, several years ago I saw it on VHS in my local video store.

[DRW50]

I wish I could see the first Ann. I just saw the second briefly and can see where she might seem a little dull.

What did you think of John Gabriel (I think he left town with O'Hara Parker's Lorna)? I know he left RH for what was supposed to be a better role but did he last long?

You have probably already answered this but did you see the whole Faust-type story with John O'Hurley?

How was Bryan Cranston? I'm so used to seeing him in comedic roles. I wish I could see Noreen. She seems like the type of soap actress I might like.

[SFK]

http://www.amazon.com/LOVING-Pilot-Lloyd-Bridges/dp/B002O813HA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=video&qid=1299218863&sr=8-2

[EricMontreal22]

Cranston seems solid in the 1984 online ep...

Thanks SFK, I had heard it was commercially released. Maybe I'll order it... Wow--amazon still has copies in stock they claim!

Edited March 4, 2011 by EricMontreal22

[SFK]

I was watcing some program where Cranston was telling a funny anecdote about he and O'Hurley's Loving days, they got into an argument with some guy at a gas station and Cranston was saying how O'Hurley even argues the way he talks as Peterman.

[SFK]

I really liked Geraldine Page in everything the Loving movie and wish her character had stayed on, though maybe not because I'd totally be eating my heart out that her episodes would be unavailable.

[DRW50]

August 14, 1984 Digest. Recap, and the producer picks his show's best moment so far.

[Cheap21]

She's a pretty woman, but man that hair is horrid

Edited March 4, 2011 by Cheap21

[DRW50]

Proof that even short hair can kill an ozone layer.

Aside from her run as Cecile on AW I am not sure I ever saw Susan Keith with good hair.

[dc11786]

Regarding "Loving" and the Writer's Strike, the only thing I remember off the top of my head was some weird story about Lilly Slater (post-psycho stalker stage) ending up helping some young homeless woman and her son who were living at a shelter. I don't think it was a particularly strong time for the show. Tom King / Millee Taggert took over right afterwards replacing Ralph Ellis who had written for the show before the strike.

I love the Episodes article if for the pictures alone. I hadn't seen Christopher Cass / Lauren Marie Taylor together before. It seems so odd to think there was another Jack Forbes.

Shana was initially brought on to be paired with Jim Vochek to replace Merrill / Roger as the show's lead romantic couple. Jim / Shana shared a past in Rome and Shana romanced Jim's pal Mike Donovan. Mike had been married to Jim's sister Noreen, who would later return to town when Mike / Shana became engaged. Noreen revealed she and Mike weren't divorced and Mike ended up back with Noreen. Shana and Jim were torn by his commitment to the church and then Shana's involvement with Doug Donovan, Mike's brother.

In the 1990s, Jacqueline Babbin brought Shana back and was pairing her with Dane Hammond. When Shana first arrived in Corinth in the 1980s, Dane had brought her as a part of a revenge scheme against the Aldens. Dane romanced Shana when she lost her memory after Jim and Jimmy's deaths. Dane and Shana eventually split and Shana lingered. I think "Loving" struggled with women of a certain age. Gwyn, Ann, and Shana all sort of struggled through the years to maintain story.

The Merrill / Roger story is very bizarre. It dominates the first few months and then peters out. Someone realized it wasn't going to work and scrapped it, but not before trying to make them work. Merrill dated the Alden family lawyer for a brief time and Roger / Ann were going to make a go of their marriage. When Roger was written off, it was ambigious. His body was never found. I'm sure somewhere down the line Dane & Ann's marriage would have been ruined by the return of Roger Forbes.

I really don't think Kalember was fired for a hair cut. "Ryan' s Hope" even did a joke about this a few years earlier with Liz Kemp's Diana Buckman during "The Proud and the Passionate" storyline. I truly think its urban legend.

If Lily had stayed, I suspect a Jack / Lily / Curtis triangle would have continued to play out for several years with Lily's personalities causing conflict in both her relationships with Jack and Curtis. Before Ava set her eyes on Curtis, Curtis had a brief dalliance with Colby Cantrell. Colby was Rita Mae's niece and she worked for Burnell's department store in some capacity. Colby and Curtis split when it was revealed Curtis was involved in financing pornography during his days gallvanting around Europe. Sasha Hale, a model for one of the Alden companies, had been the star of some of those films.

Stacey was also paired with Tony Perilli, a scholarship student who had attended school with Jack. Stacey was smitten with Tony before Lorna bedded and wedded the man. If Lily had stayed, I suspect Stacey / Tony / Lorna would have played out longer and may even overlapped with Jack / Lily / Curtis. I think I read in one of the summaries that Curtis briefly flirted with Stacey. I think a Curtis / Jack rivalry would have been inevitable had things not been so turbulent behind the scenes. Also, a Curtis / Jack rivalry would have fueled stories for some time.

Cabot was written out in February 1991. I think Babbin was still in charge along with King / Taggert. Cabot had been having heart troubles and knew Clay had signed off on the faulty airplane parts scheme that resulted in the death of Jim and Jimmy Vochek. At the time, Trucker McKenzie was believed to be behind the shady deal, but Cabot agreed to exonerate Trucker. Before he could make good, Cabot croaked and Clay plotted to get his hands on the family fortune. I'm pretty sure Celeste Holm was playing Isabelle at the time because Holm was upset because she had taken the role to work with her husband.

Part of the problem with Ann was no one knew what to do with her. I think the plan was to bring Roger back eventually and have Roger / Ann allign themselves with Cabot in the battle against Dane in control for the company which would have eventually spilled over into a fight over control of Jack and eventually lead a triangle where Ann would fight her feelings for Roger and Dane.

When Roger didn't return, Agnes Nixon took Ann down the victim route with Dane seducing Gwyn and trying to gaslight Ann. I think Dane / Gwyn still could have happened as there was story to play there but not without Roger and eventually Clay in the picture. I believe Gwyn was also one of those from Milltown, the 'wrong' part of Coritnh.

From reading, the one thing I liked about Rick was he came to town when Alex was impersonating Clay so everyone thought Rick was an imposter. When Rick came in, Curtis had been softened. He was a racecar driver who fell in love with country bumpkin Lottie Bates. I suspect Rick was suppose to be a pot stirrer, but nothing really came of him.

Cabot returned to town in July / August 1994. In May, Deborah Brewster had learned a nasty secret Clay Alden had been hiding and blackmailed him into marrying her. The secret involved the Cradle Foundation, a company who was caring for somebody who was suppose to be dead. Steffi, Clay's former girlfriend and Deborah's daughter, worked with Cooper Alden, her former boyfriend and an Alden cousin, to learn the secret. Cooper and Steffi tracked down Cabot to a local diner where he was working as a chef named Buddy. Cabot was living a separate life because of the shame of the Alden family building their fortune after stealing from the Solowsky family.