soapfan770

Lorimar made a fatal mistake/error of judgement typical of what we saw hurt P&G soaps time and time again: a lot-flip flopping the crew. Flip-flopping Dunne and Paulsen didn’t work at all for the 85-86 season and they both were gone afterwards. If anything Paulsen should’ve been sent to Falcon Crest in ‘85 and probably could have gotten the show focused again. Did Michael Filerman make that bone headed decision?

Agreed on the Season 8 theme being my least favorite of all the themes. So after re-watching the Peter Hollister seasons I still have so many questions. I don’t know if these questions were addressed in the series and I missed them, (I feel like I watch the episodes pretty closely, but maybe not) Did Greg Sumner ever find out that Peter wasn’t really his brother? If not, did Sumner ever find out that Jill was Peter’s sister? If he did know that Jill was Peter’s sister, did he think Jill was his sister too? Was Gary the only one who knew Jill and Peter were brother and sister? Did Gary only think that Jill was also Sumner’s sister or did he know that Peter and Sumner weren’t really related either? I know Gary told Mack that Jill was Peter’s sister and about her Dottie Simpsons after Jill’s death, but I don’t remember anyone else really knowing. I know Abby knew that Peter and Sumner weren’t really related, but did she know Jill and Peter were? I’m so lost with who did and didn’t know about Jill and Peter.

LOL what helps me is that it was obviously Latham era of Knots that was my first exposure to the show. Yet even for younger early teen me Linda Fairgate’s murder was too much so I still don’t care for much for the final 2 seasons at all, although years later I can certainly see how the losses of both Laura and Abby affected this show a lot. Morgan Fairchild on Knots? LOL to that too. Had she been cast I could totally see her playing some recurring gig like Karen’s producer Dianne Kirkwood in Season 11 that Robin Strasser found herself miserably in. I still would’ve like to have seen Morgan back as Jenna on Dallas, but alas. She wasn’t a good fit for Falcon Crest either (where as I thought both Jill Jacobson and Jane Badler fit in more naturally) and she had obviously big footprints to fill as Racine on Paper Dolls after Joan Collins perfectly played Racine in the movie.

Lol so true. Still completely unnecessary and contrived, especially since Aunt Ginny left right before Val went crazy in the same convenient way Lilimae did before Jill targeted Val. I would’ve at least explain as some sort of psychological trauma breakdown between Ben and Danny before the brain virus explanation at the very least.

Lord I had actually more or less enjoyed Season 12 up until that point. I had never understood why they had Val go crazy like that so late in the show. It would’ve made more sense if Val had breakdown back in S9 after Ben disappeared or even if Danny caused her to breakdown but that was a bit much and an unnecessary plot device.

LOL the Thirteen really did a number on the show. I suppose it might have been a nice callback to Richard’s cartel days but the story was over the top. It did finally make Eric Stravos finally interesting as a psychopath after spending Seasons 5, 6, and early Season 7 as basically a Lance clone. I do wonder though if the show would’ve been better off just to complete the Gustav Riebmann arc as planned rather shift gears mid-season. (Oddly four years later Dynasty would feature a similar story involving Nazi treasure on the Carrington Estate.) The Rossini revenge story was good on paper and had the talents of Anne Archer and Celeste Holm but was for whatever reason executed poorly. The whole debacle of Robert McCullough firing Ann Marcus and then McCullough getting fired himself certainly did the show no favors either.

What a mistake the show made there tbh. I actually liked her as Linda, and killing her off so we the audience could suffer through 2 seasons of miserable Cole/Melissa melodrama and Melissa have her 1st round of going bonkers crazy just wasn’t worth it.

A bit late to the party but those were fascinating reads @kalbir! Thanks for sharing. Great points especially on the increased sensationalism and comparison to what doomed the daytime soaps as well. Dallas and Falcon Crest could’ve been made more grounded easily; I’m not so sure grounding Dynasty would’ve ever worked. Alexis and Krystle getting into a catfight over a parking spot at K-Mart? Not sure where Falcon Crest would’ve moved to by this point. By this point keeping the Dallas-FC Friday night double bill going had become essential. Maybe FC could’ve moved to Tuesday nights at 10 or get thrown on Saturday nights at 10? Of course the new hotness Miami Vice would become the new coldness the following season and LA Law ended up moving as FC stabilized. Poor Earl though I wonder if he knew his time coming to a close? He mentioned Li-Ying who I enjoyed but her run ended up so short. As kalbir pointed out CBS was having other issues at this point. Notably so many aging hits, while impatiently trying to build a whole new Wednesday night lineup out of a movie night failed miserably except for the Equalizer. Cheers’ history and its ratings has always intrigued me, mainly because the show went through a couple different eras and iterations. The lower rated Coach and Sam/Diane years are held in higher regard; the Harrelson/Alley years, which were more popular at the time, haven’t aged as well or aren’t seen at the same level these days. CBS moving Knots Landing up to 9/8 in the fall of 86 was a chance at counter programming that backfired as well before settling on that weird schedule of Simon & Simon at 8:30/7:30, Designing Women at 9:30/8:30 and Knots at 10/9. On a final note interesting choice words there by Brandon Tartikoff; towards the end of his run at NBC L.A. Law had become the same way and would be its eventual downfall as well.

What a mess, especially after Del Rio’s wife took some cheap shot at Lewis and now there’s folks blaming Lewis for instigating as well.

Oh wow I had no idea she was still living, may she definitely RIP! Did she ever have a successful HW tenure in her own right though? Seems if I recall correctly her best work as HW was often coasting off of her predecessors as occurred on Love of Life, The Doctors, and Days. Her 86-88 AW run with Racina was mixed but definitely had moments. Her 89 run as HW at AMC seems obscure but SOD named AMC and her work as the Best Show as of 1989. Her later runs at AW and Sunset Beach, well the less said the better.

Thinking back to Phyllis early days, was it any coincidence that Abby Dalton was cast as Phyllis’ mother Lydia? I suppose Dalton was another old school Hollywood hire by that point but knowing that crazy Phyllis was the daughter of crazy Julia Cumson from Falcon Crest makes sense in a cosmic way lol.

I believe we already have a variation of this already back in the beginning towards the start of this thread, but here is ratings from 38 years ago.

Agreed. I need to do my own rewatch as well. The first four seasons for me were the best. Season 5 was solid fun too but I seem to remember the excess number of clip shows thrown in. Seasons 6 and 7 had a different set of writers (hello Marc Cherry!) and does feel off. Certainly enjoyable but some of the continuing storylines didn’t feel right at all. I will say Season 7 stands out as feeling different than the rest because while there’s a number of episodes and moments I enjoy, it definitely feels more like a 90’s show even more so than it’s other contemporaries which served up 80’s leftovers in their final seasons. I agree it ended at the right time though although I’m still a bit mixed on the finale. Interesting though Estelle Getty would continue to play Sophia for another 3 seasons on two other shows.

Exactly all this!!!

So happy to at least have Nina and Gina back for this, actually really surprised to have Patty Weaver at all. Don’t get me started on this aggravating show lol.

Don’t forgot our favorite Dynasty reject had a recurring role in Season 5! 🤣 There’s so much wrong with Season 5 of the top a lot of it was boring melodrama. So many good ideas went to waste and season fell into stagnancy. The back half after Apollonia, Father Chris (what was the point?!?) and Robin left was a lot better, but by that point I’ll say the show had teetered into the crime/mystery format with the 80’s synth music the show feels like it’s setting up for the Freilich era to start. The high points of the season for me are Emma and Dwayne, Chao-Li’s daughter which was cut too short, and well Peter and Angela. The show still did well with 55+ crowd from the demos I’ve seen, and well it was implied Peter and Angela had sex (more than once). Perhaps Cesar Romero and Jane Wyman together was comfort food instead of what Miami Vice for the older demos.

Something I was wondering about after recently rewatching a few season 2 episodes when they reaired on Plex’s soap channel the other day but what did everything think about Jane Elliot’s Judy Trent character? I kind of wished that Knots had at least gotten some more mileage out of Elliot and I could’ve easily seen Mills and Elliot having a good feud for at least a season, but Judy was just an obstacle really for Abby.

Thanks @kalbir! I knew we had this data already but sometimes it’s hard to find the exact page lol. For the most part definitely lighter fare ruled above the heavier dramas. Obviously NBC sitcoms and MSW, but also Highway to Heaven, the CBS Monday night lineup were favorites here. ABC Tuesdays were slowly taking shape. Knots Landing was the only stable primetime soap I see for these 1st weeks. LOL. I’d also throw in the fact that Falcon Crest wasn’t completely obliterated by the “new hotness” either i.e. Moonlighting killing off Riptide this season or Mangum’s complete collapse. The Retro TV Listings group also posted the start of the 84-85 season as well. It’s probably already posted too but I’ll share it again. I’m actually surprised Paper Dolls started off decently.

Jack and Jennifer was probably the one classic Days super couple that got stifled the most this century. The whole Africa affair thing, Jennifer and Colin, Jack pretending to be gay for Greta, and Jack purchasing a talk show for Jennifer wall over the top and strange as it was, but of course once JER came back Jack was killed off three years in a row. Then later died a 4th time which gave way to Jennifer & Daniel which still makes me 🤢 to this day. I mean I am glad that Jack and Jennifer finally stabilized these days but it took wayyyy too long to recover from the chaos of the mid-00’s. Oh and @carolineg and @dc11786 I agree with both of your assessments about the 2009-11 period of the show. I do think Sweeney, Zucker, Bjorn, Rogers, and Koslow deserve most if not all credit for carrying the show on their backs during that period but they never seem to get recognized for that era.

No kidding. I think some ideas might have been sounded good on paper but none of it was executed well. JR and Cliff fighting over who was going to clean up an oil spill was nonsensical, JR being JR and pointlessly cheating on Cally with that lady from the move Spaceballs was just dumb, Ellie and Clayton going around solving the mystery of the week, wasting Lesley-Anne Down’s talent etc. None of it was good.

I vaguely recall Ron a few years later retconned the story a few years later by having Dorian reveal she killed Victor and that the guy was an imposter, but he didn’t go further than that. What a mess. I blame Josh Griffith as that is totally up his alley.

Le sighed agreed 100% I was at least interested when Casey Denault returned and both Lucy and April were drawn in but the show made them look so foolish once all the schemes went bust. Then later came the ridiculous triangle between Lucy, Cally, and Elizabeth Taylor’s son. I loathe that particular season of Dallas and I think it’s the 2nd worst season after the 87-88 season. I was a bit shocked Knots’ final season actually mention Lucy a couple times though, especially when Mac asked about in the wake of Val being presumed dead.

Here’s an article regarding the Golden Girls debut and surrounding ratings: NBC STARTS FAST IN RATINGS RACE By LEE MARGULIES Sept. 18, 1985 TIMES STAFF WRITER NBC’s bid to unseat CBS as the prime-time ratings champion got off to a zippy preseason start last week as three of its new series placed first, third and 13th in the audience popularity ratings, figures from the A.C. Nielsen Co. showed Tuesday. The premiere of “The Golden Girls,” dubbed by many critics as the best new comedy of the season, was the most watched program of the week, attracting viewers in 21.5 million homes on Saturday night. “The Golden Girls,” which stars Bea Arthur, Betty White, Rue McClanahan and Estelle Getty as single women living together in Miami, scored the highest premiere ratings for any NBC comedy since the 1974 debut of “Chico and the Man,” the network said. The new comedy that followed it on NBC Saturday, “227,” finished third, with a rerun of “The Cosby Show” coming in second. “Hell Town,” the other NBC series that debuted last week, ranked 13th among the week’s 61 prime-time network programs. In all, NBC captured the top four spots and 11 of the top 15 on Nielsen’s weekly ratings list. Its programs were seen in an average of 12.6 million homes, compared to 12 million for ABC and 10.7 million for CBS. CBS’ presentation of “Death of a Salesman” on Sunday night, with Dustin Hoffman recreating his Broadway performance as Willy Loman, ranked 25th for the week, drawing an audience of about 12.1 million homes. CBS has won the prime-time ratings race for six years running but this year expects a strong challenge from NBC, which moved up to second last season after nine years in third. NBC has now captured 16 of the last 17 weeks, including one tie. CBS’ ratings typically dip during the summer, however, in part because its popular soap operas--”Dallas,” “Falcon Crest” and “Knots Landing”--do not perform well in repeats. The 1985-86 TV season doesn’t begin officially until Monday, even though NBC unveiled three of its new series last week and another nine are debuting this week, including four tonight on CBS. So, much of the programming is still reruns, meaning that the preseason ratings for new shows are not necessarily indicative of how well they will do against regular competition. TELEVISION RATINGS Here are the ratings for national prime-time television last week (Sept. 9 through 15), as compiled by the A. C. Nielsen Co. Each rating point is said by Nielsen to represent 859,000 homes, or 1% of the 85.9 million U.S. households that have TV. Network Rating Program 1. The Golden Girls NBC 25.0 2. The Cosby Show NBC 24.6 3. 227 NBC 23.8 4. “Miss America Pageant” NBC 23.7 5. Monday Night Football ABC 20.7 6. “Barbara Walters Special” ABC 20.3 7. 60 Minutes CBS 19.6 8. “Lady Blue” ABC 19.2 9. Cheers NBC 19.1 10. Family Ties NBC 18.8 11. Facts of Life NBC 18.7 12. “Back to Next Saturday” NBC 18.1 13. Hell Town NBC 17.5 14. Highway to Heaven NBC 16.8 15. Gimme a Break NBC 16.7 16. “Gambler--Adventure Continues,” Part II CBS 16.4 17. Who’s the Boss? ABC 15.3 18. “Love Child” NBC 15.1 19. Newhart CBS 15.0 20. Kate & Allie CBS 15.0 21. NFL Football (Thu.) ABC 14.8 22. Hill Street Blues NBC 14.7 23. Moonlighting ABC 14.7 24. NFL Football CBS 14.5 25. “Death of a Salesman” CBS 14.5 26. Three’s a Crowd ABC 14.1 27. Scarecrow & Mrs. King CBS 14.0 28. Remington Steele NBC 13.1 29. Simon & Simon CBS 13.0 30. “Life’s Embarrassing Moments” ABC 12.9 31. Hotel ABC 12.9 32. “Brass” CBS 12.9 33. Miami Vice NBC 12.8 34. OceanQuest NBC 12.8 35. “ABC All-Star Spectacular” ABC 12.7 36. Cagney & Lacey CBS 12.6 37. “The Cannonball Run” CBS 12.5 38. Webster ABC 12.3 39. Knight Rider NBC 12.2 40. A-Team NBC 12.2 41. “American Almanac” NBC 12.0 42. Mr. Belvedere ABC 11.8 43. “Secrets of a Married Man” NBC 11.6 44. TV Bloopers & Practical Jokes NBC 11.6 45. Hometown CBS 11.2 46. Silver Spoons NBC 11.2 47. West 57th CBS 11.1 48. Magnum, P.I. CBS 11.1 49. Riptide NBC 11.1 50. “J.O.E. & the Colonel” ABC 11.0 51. Hardcastle & McCormick ABC 10.6 52. Benson ABC 10.5 53. I Had Three Wives CBS 10.5 54. Airwolf CBS 8.6 55. Punky Brewster NBC 8.5 56. “In Like Flynn” ABC 8.4 57. Love Boat ABC 8.2 58. “Illusions” CBS 7.8 59. Ripley’s Believe It or Not ABC 7.7 60. Motown Revue NBC 7.1 61. “Saturday Morning Preview” CBS 5.1

The deaths of Damian and Chance really left me in the cold. This is the first time I’ve stopped watching Y&R for stretch since the summer of 2012 when the Victor/Sharon/Tucker insanity crap happened. All that needs to be said.

I always still remember the very homoerotic friendship of Vinny and Thomas from a few years ago. Of course they made Vinny so obsessed with Thomas that Vinny sacrificed himself to ensure Liam took the blame for his death. What a mess that story was!