P.J.

Thanks! I'd seen an episode after this, when Vanessa comes back to town frustrated after layovers and such, to Ross chewing her out just before Dinah's graduation. I gotta admit, I wasn't really interested in 87 reading recaps and such. It seemed kind of odd trying to pair Vanessa and Alan when '80-'84 has them pretty adversarial. Now I think I need to watch. Chris could certainly slide into the softer side of Alan when it was called for.

That was a little before the episode with him in drag. But the lounge lizard type come ons/oily charm he tries with Vanessa has her staring at him like he's got three heads. At one point Buzz keeps referring to her as a cash cow (she's been aggressively bleeding Roger/Jenna of clients) and she sweeps past him saying "I suddenly feel the need to graze.." OMG. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement. While he could occasionally reign himself in, those moments got further and further apart through the years. "King of Fifth Street Buzz" is just annoying.

YIKES.

Oddly, in hindsight, I don't think Hamilton was a bad actress. She just didn't jell as Mindy. She doesn't seem to fit as a Lewis, and she seems too young for the role. Crampton needed more challenging writing, she's not suited to a "good" girl type. And she seems too old.

it's the April 29 episode. It's also Barbara Crampton's first episode as Mindy.

I just saw a promo for it on the April 27th episode of Guiding Light.

I'm actually amused at how he's yanking Nadine's strings. God I hate that woman. And he's up in Vanessa's face---if looks could kill, Buzz would've been chum.

I'm watching april 93 right now, I'll tell you when I see it. Alan puts those things up later, right? I can't watch live. I know I've been boring everyone with my Maeve/Vanessa love, but this just feels like synergy. I've been very aware of all the losses these past few years, and this just feels like a gift. I wish Jerry could do one as well. Or how great a Maeve/Lisa/Michael one might have been.

*claps*

Yes, I think Alan paid her? Random thoughts/questions: I miss soap musical montages. I've been watching '92/early '93, and they've had some nice ones. Has anyone seen either the August 22, 1983 or February 26th 1993 on youtube? I was certain I viewed the 83 episode in it's entirety in English. The 93 episode is right after Vanessa/AM/Henry lose Spaulding to Jenna. The 25th ends with Vanessa asking Billy for a job at Lewis, and the 3/1 episode picks up with Billy avoiding telling Nadine and Vanessa trying to make a deal at Lewis. JFC...randomly watched little Maureen's birth/Mo's heavenly visit to Vanessa. Instead of honoring Vanessa's connections to the entire canvas, she spends her time watching future Matt and Dinah being assholes, and deciding to come back and raise them and baby Maureen. SMH.

Brolden, I hate to bother you, but do those RATS boards include Guiding Light recaps? Can you post a link?

oh, sweet Jesus...Rusty was less a name than a description of TA's acting.

Robert Newman is extremely likeable, don't get me wrong. But he's basically Reva's chew toy.

LOL...I've seen that---Vanessa calls her Maybelline. I didn't realize Billy/Nadine were exactly in cahoots to keep Ross/Van apart. I know Van is constantly asking Ross if he's involved with Holly, and Nadine kind of realized that she couldn't compete with Van and Holly when she wanted to crawl back to Ross. I thought Billy just kind of latched on to Nadine because she was the "party girl" side of Reva, when Vanessa hesitated to get back on the merry-go-round and realized Billy thought he was in love with Reva. Fletch/Nola might've been interesting, she could've been stumbling on to stories that he was investigating or something. It would've been better than Nola/Buzz anyway. Elizabeth Dennehy, while an excellent actress, just didn't seem to fit on a soap. And surely not as Holly's daughter. I remember some horrid strike scene of Blake drawing faces on coconuts or something and thinking it smelled desperate. Random thought---I don't really miss Josh when he leaves in 91 either. Billy, while occasionally really frustrating, is my favorite Lewis.

What did surprise me in Vanessa's return is how hard she goes after Ross again. She tries manipulating him back into Spaulding, making a deal with Phillip (agreeing to back his idea to give WSPR to Blake in exchange for offering Ross a VP position.). Vanessa sure believed in work place romance. I think overall, Vanessa's return was handled well. There are times I wish OG Vanessa could've come out and dealt with her adversaries more, but when she did, it was awesome. The only women I thought Fletch ever worked with were Claire and Alex, and even with Alex he comes off as a lecturing dweeb. He is so suffocating with Vanessa. Who intends to throw a rock on someone's finger after three months? Sure, they've known each other for a while, but he doesn't really understand what makes her tick. There's a wonderful moment where she tells him that a lot of what he admires in her now is the result of her having loved Billy, and that Fletch wouldn't have even looked at her then (which is so true, early Vanessa is just slightly less self-destructive than Blake.) Y'know, back in the days when shows actually did their homework instead just inventing character history to suit story. Personally, I do think they needed Alex on canvas. And I'd certainly rather deal with Alex than Alan (all apologies to Ron Raines). But I certainly rather have dealt with a more controlling Vanessa than the Matt years.

God, Vanessa/Fletcher is a l-o-n-g three months. Bev does look exhausted in her exit. "Do a good job, baby," feels off-script.

I think Marland would've given her a redemptive arc in the style of Nola's though. She almost seems like a Lucinda-esque prototype. But I agree---I don't think Vanessa could've lasted as the neurotic mess she was before Billy much longer. It took her three years to get a viable romance. And other than Ed, I don't think any of her entanglements truly cared about her. Ross of this era is mostly just using her.

LOL...it's strange how your perspective changes. I know when I really started getting GL, I was into the romance of Kelly/Morgan and Quint/Nola. And honestly, I didn't remember a lot of early Vanessa. But in rewatching now, I can identify with Vanessa's more cynical assessment of love and romance. (see also Van showing up in black to Ross and Carrie's wedding...) While I love Billy and Vanessa, I do wonder what Marland would've written for her, or what would've happened to her if Reva hadn't taken over the damn show. re Reva: other then her momma and sisters, I can't think of a female friend she had. It's always a guy--Philip, Fletch, Hamp, Billy. Ooops...I suppose Abby. but I generally hated Amish Reva so... It was great that GL built up Bill/Michelle/Ben from the time they were kids. Though it's a little weird that no one refers to Ben and Bill as cousins. I do think Vanessa runs the Spaulding Foundation in 86, so they might have crossed there, and the kids' connection makes sense (not only Bill/Michelle, but a little during the Rick/Mindy years). It's just jarring sometimes when you rewatch an earlier era and don't see the interconnectedness that developed later.

In a quick search, it must be between April 11th 1989 when Josh and Reva take Marah in for another DNA test, and the 28th when Josh tells Will that he is indeed Marah's father. The German episode dates it as the 4/14 episode. It seems to be the same episode where Meredith miscarries Phillip's baby. https://youtu.be/lp-rGkdEyQU?si=A86cxHUdIBL-kXGl

I completely understand why Ellen Dolan's Maureen shouldn't have been friends with Vanessa. Van had issues with Tony, Bea and Nola, and of course, had been involved with Ed. (Vanessa at Quint/Nola's wedding and reception is hilarious. She's a reluctant bridesmaid to say the least. Everyone's looking for Nola, and Van's down in the basement filing her nails without a care in the world. She disparages marriage while talking to Billy, and Billy later keeps her from jabbing Nola with a hatpin.) By the 90's the rest of Mo's family is gone, and Ed and Vanessa is long buried and only obliquely referenced. What I meant was that I don't really see ED's Maureen as the "pal around with a girlfriend" type. Even on ATWT Dolan seemed to have stronger friend chemistry with male actors.

Was that a case where the casting influenced the character? It's too bad Vanessa and Maureen weren't friends for longer. It's weird they barely even interact before '90. And actually, I can't see Ellen Dolan's Maureen being friendly with Vanessa.

Yep. Mallet and Mindy race to NYC to stop it, but were too late. But that's where Mindy found Nick. I zipped through most of it, but the little I did see was not good. After 1990 seeming to hit on all cylinders (with the exception of the stupid Chelsea stalker story), '91 seems to stumble through almost half the year. Considering how bad the subsequent recasts were, they should've signed Simms for the year and hoped for the best. Question---is there a better example of a show bringing back a character(s) and getting them right than Roger and Holly? I just kind of marvel at how seemlessly they fit back on the canvas after 10 years (more or less). Roger is just the perfect antagonist to the entire town. And I don't think it would have worked nearly as well without Holly there to be his Achilles heel. Especially considering the was only actor still on canvas that they both worked with was Jerry verDorn. So many times the canvas had changed so much in just a few years that the returning character seems out of place. The only instance I can think that even comes close is Marie Masters' Susan Stewart--and in her case, she had a core of actors still there that she'd worked with. re: Alex. I think she was content to let Phillip run Spaulding knowing she held the controlling interest. It was Alan's return in 86 that propelled her to be more hands on. But the power struggles at Spaulding are hard to keep track of.

lol...I think GL figured out quickly that it sucked and wrapped it up sooner than they intended.

The animosity between Alex and Alan was that he hadn't helped her when Brandon disowned her. Brandon somehow engineered taking Lujack from her when he was about three. Alex later accused Alan of helping Brandon kidnap Lujack. Alan denied it, telling her Brandon let her believe that to drive a wedge between them. (that came out when Alan asks Alex to keep Marah's paternity a secret from Josh.) I thought what motivated Alex was her need for control and inability to trust. It dooms her romantic relationships, it complicates her family relationships. The year or so, she did lie low about Spaulding, but that was because she was scheming to claim her share to give to her son. She goes as far as to blackmail Henry and Quint out of their shares (or out of the controlling interest they had) by reminding them about the kickback Henry and Vanessa took from the Jocelyn Electronics deal when Spaulding and Chamberlain merged, and "worrying" that an SEC investigation could see Vanessa face charges. (long story short, Vanessa had paid it back, and when Alex brought it back up Vanessa was pregnant with Bill and had left town over Billy's obsession with Reva and the Slut of Springfield debacle) She had a matriarchal streak, but I don't think Marj got to play that as much. By the time she was cast, Phillip and Alan-Michael were rotating in and out of the show. Sigh...1991 spends way too much time on Mallet's mob ex-girlfriend. WAY too much time.

I think of Nadine as an exaggerated loser version of Reva, actually. She married her high-school boyfriend and he turned out to be a creep.