Vee

I'm not going to post it but Olivia Nuzzi - always a socialite friend to white supremacists like Milo, etc. - is out there sounding like Steve Bannon, crowing that 'establishment media' have nor reported on Biden's infirmity enough. She seems to have forgotten she writes for New York Magazine. Every Very Online media talking head keeps running around frenzied saying 'no one is talking about/acknowledging this,' when in reality every major media outlet has been pushing it for months. What they mean is that they wanted Biden's age to be the story they could run on to handicap him, and they're frustrated the party and its voters haven't really accepted it or abandoned him. There's not going to be a primary challenge. There's not going to be anyone else because the majority of Dem voters don't want what the media wants. And while this has been beyond infuriating to watch, as I said before this is also all a bit too early and Biden is not Clinton. And we've got over eight months to go.

We've had this discussion a few times over the years, but it's becoming more relevant recently for potential availability reasons: Does anyone have a clear fix on exactly when Michael Malone and Josh Griffith began writing in '91, even if their names weren't immediately on the end credits? I know Jason Webb came in in mid-late August working on the Banner loading dock with Kevin, and Jason was a Gottlieb addition; she explicitly hired Mark Brettschneider herself. I've also heard that the new creative team abruptly shifted the trajectory of the Heinrich Kaiser, etc. con man story with Cord and Tina they apparently inherited, creating Cain Rogan for Christopher Cousins via a quick change in the plotline. And Susan Batten we know came on as Luna in September, followed by (I think) Robert Krimmer and Mia Korf as Andrew and Blair in October. The online data on dates is often unreliable on this stuff, and the available end credits aren't always on top of the changes (ghostwriting, contracts, whatever). I suspect it was in August '91 but I'd like to try and pinpoint the timing for reference soon. Being able to view this period as it happens would be invaluable.

I do think there's a chance they've also been chumming the waters for Sonny and Ava to hook up again, as some have mentioned. A lot of people would say 'oh no, he'd never go there again after Connie, A.J. etc' but I remember how close Sonny came to fúcking Faith Rosco, who he never had nearly as functional a relationship with as Ava (who he should regard as an enemy the same as Faith tbh). When Sonny is down bad enough, bipolar or on his ego/pity trip he'll fúck anything. Avery is living proof of that.

I'll admit I have a different tolerance level for Toadie and Terese as a newbie having never seen them with others. It's an odd couple, but the engagement and focus on the mutual adjustment for both of them to very different personas/professional lives and the tension with the kids is interesting to me (so far).

Already renewed:

We've been saying it for a few years now but yes, all this. It seems like the writing actively attempts to keep all popular characters friendly with each other to appease what they feel is their remaining audience lol. So conflict dies too quickly: Ava slaughtered Connie as part of a cover-up to establish a rival empire to Sonny's, yet because they want to keep Maura West she's chummy with Sonny and now Carly. Ava and Nina are BFF despite their very dark history, which I can at least forgive because the show has acknowledged that strangeness. And Carly, Sam and Elizabeth are all good.

The recast is just comical. I can't take anything done with him seriously because of the actor choice, nor do I care about Jagger returning period.

I just never realized they went through like 3-4 Pierce Dormans over what, 3 years? I had no idea he debuted in either '94 or '95. He was totally forgettable to me until they poached Tuc Watkins from OLTL. What was Labine even doing with him?

It's a long eight months. People are going to get tired of that script, and a lot more is going to happen out there. I have always been fairly certain he will win. I still am. I fear the election itself a lot less than I do enduring this entire year of hell as an cycle, the fallout from it and simply taking the risk at all.

I don't know anyone but Biden who can run and win this race. If there was someone else I'd consider it, but there isn't and I'm fine with him doing it. I don't accept the Beltway frame where the whining media demanded someone else run out of boredom and then claimed 'everyone' in America or in the party wants him to bow out, which just isn't true. They cherrypick polls and lean on the Very Online for that take, and as always it doesn't reflect actual reality or the climate in the party. Then their idea of 'Democratic' pundits is usually far left burnouts or 'disruptors' who never got over the Bernie primaries like the Cracked guy, Will Stancil, that nut Jeet Heer, etc. Or Dean Phillips! Being interviewed as a guy with his finger on the pulse! And then they act like this is the voice of the party. In any event, once again I feel this furor is coming a bit too early for them to make it last. We've got 8+ months to go.

Right, and what I'm saying is those people jump to nonsense based on random and inaccurate speculation. They turn uninformed spec into 'rumor' and suddenly it becomes 'Annalynne McCord is totally NuNicole!' There are no actual rumors suggesting McCord is playing Nicole, there was just a handful of loud people making mistakes. If we post 'people are saying' without noting the error than all we are doing is amplifying misinformation.

There's no need to stifle your commentary for one poster months behind. Go nuts.

So White Jagger (Wagger, if you will) is totally unrecognizable physically and in mannerisms lol. I don't understand the point of not going out and at least finding a dark Italian actor for this silly recurring role, but I don't understand the point of bringing back Jagger at all. Bizarre.

I agree. She's often done that IMO, but I also think it may just be harkening back to Annie Dutton from GL a bit. Either way it's appropriate for the character.

Oh, I don't doubt it's possible. But I honestly find both characters superfluous. My only interest in Nina is playing to CW's strengths and writing a psycho arc for her to exit in a blaze of glory, preferably losing her marbles over Brenda - Nina came on this show batshít insane and that's how she can leave. Drew, I've talked about the dilemma with him as a blank slate and how he could be recast into anything with the right actor. But I'm so tired of what CM's been doing that I need him to be gone for at least a little while too lol. I will add that Brook Kerr has been killing it as always and deserves a much stronger male partner onscreen. Be that an old or new Justus as I suggested or whoever else, free Portia!

No, I agree it's such a weak breakup. And I think under D&C anyone else in the mix may have just been spoilers/complications for Sonny and Nina, who knows (despite the writing team clearly despising Nina!). But hey, I just don't care so long as I'm watching something new lol. I'll let @Darn describe his reaction to Drew spending years in supervillain torture vs. a few weeks/months in lock-up, lol. Drew's behavior re: Nina lately is truly psycho. He was going full Wrath of Khan on her ass with Michael the other day. You would think she killed Oscar.

Me neither, but who cares? Any excuse to end some of these boring couples I'll take. Nina and Valentin can leave together or perish in a house fire for all I care. To be clear I don't think they were committed to Sonny/Nina being over before the HW change or are currently in what's onscreen. I think they may have been playing with Lois, Anna, Ava, Valentin, whatever. But going forward I think anything goes.

She had the Leora story, but she was never this weepy.

I have no idea, but I think anything is on the table with potentially strong new writers. Or so I choose to hope!

I've often felt Finola leans into the more emotional, soppy material since returning into the 2010s because she wants more vulnerability for Anna and enjoys playing with some scene partners. I can understand that to a point, and I could understand her being emotional in the Robin saga in that early period in 2012-13. But no one plays a cold operator like Finola, and Anna is just too hardcore for me to buy into all the weeping over Valentin, etc. and the cozy scenes with guys like Sonny. The Scorpios should both have a hard line on him.

Don't get me started on what's been done with Anna over the years. I've said it many times; they've made her too soft and weepy too often, and too chummy with Sonny, etc. because the show has gone out of its way since 2012 to make it clear over and over that Anna is cool with Sonny so the audience should be too. Mo and Finola liking each other off-camera is not a good excuse. I love Anna and I hate how weak she's become re: Sonny, Valentin, etc.

I also think they still have chemistry, but I just have zero interest in watching Rena be wasted on that because that's exactly what would happen especially with these (thankfully) departing writers and the character would continue to be compromised. Mo can barely get up to half his best speed on a good day as is.