Vee

I still don't get the whole thing where they brought him back in the late '90s claiming he and Lucinda somehow knew each other before when they'd met onscreen IIRC and she was snowed by him. But that is way OT for this thread.

I honestly think it was all just reverse-engineered from those old, equally gross discarded story plans with Stavros to cement Valentin/JPS on the show. That's it.

Mandy Bruno's Marina was ultimately cloying and boring. Occasionally she'd have moments of being vaguely compelling in dire circumstances, but she was just not ready to be a major lead. Predictably, genial and vaguely saintly mediocrity never deterred Ellen Wheeler (case in point: Jessica Leccia) so of course Bruno continued to star on the show.

And IIRC that whole situation was an outgrowth/rewrite out of something I strongly suspect Carlivati had planned there. In RC's later years RKK's Stavros became inexplicably obsessed with Lulu as his new bride a la Laura. He tried repeatedly to sleep with and/or impregnate her; I think at one point he tried to get her eggs himself to create their 'child.' At that same time Robin was being held prisoner at or around the Crichton-Clark clinic that Dante, Lulu, Teakwood Nathan West, etc. busted up when Stavros finally died again, I believe in late '14. It was a very silly September-October(?) action caper that was comically executed. They never knew Robin (or "Jason"/Drew) was there. Given Ron's adoration for weird baby swaps/surrogacy capers - something that's only gotten worse on this show since - I absolutely believed, then and now, that his long plan was for Kimberly McCullough to return again with the big reveal that Robin was now pregnant, having been forced to carry Lulu and Stavros' genetic rapespawn. Whoooaaa, soapy goodness, cries Daytime Confidential! Anyway, small favors it didn't happen. But Charlotte did, and in that story choice I strongly suspect the later writing teams were riffing on what RC had planned.

It is again delightful and amusing (and refreshing in these anodyne 2020s for ABC soaps) how relentlessly horny early Malone OLTL immediately becomes, lol. Less than two weeks into the new regime Kevin is having ludicrous fantasies about succumbing to passion with sequined red dress Lee Ann while Joey Thrower is soaking wet in the rain, then they immediately get this twunk's shirt off. Never happened with Stephanie to my knowledge, who had an even hotter tryst with Jason on Malone's first credited day. I still think Kirk Geiger is a superior Kevin in this era and Thrower's constant whining is often annoying, but he's not bad. I wonder why they recast or if they just felt he was too whiny/boyish for the stories that later developed. Someone in the comments on these episodes is claiming Asa's first love (Rose Smith) was Cain's mother. If that's true it seems like an out and out ripoff of Max's own family past with Asa, heralding Cain and Asa's future connection (where Asa basically subs him in for Max for awhile as his new 'true' son/'son I never had'). I wonder why multiple regimes kept revisiting this angle.

Valentin's relationship with Charlotte has read as gaslighting/grooming to me for a long time. But it's also because JPS honestly comes off creepy onscreen period IMO.

They could barely graze pen to paper and end this mess tomorrow. Charlotte and Lulu discover she's not a Spencer or Lulu's daughter, that it was all Valentin's machinations and off she and Papa go with Valentin headed to supermax prison. But no, Frank must keep Billy Joel at all costs, and Charlotte (allegedly a Spencer) is the legacy buy-in to the audience to allow him to remain. I think she's always been very deliberately intended as that.

Thanks! I'll check this out. Oh, this is funny. They're literally using Wendy Carlos' music from The Shining at the beginning. Is there any place I can find background on exactly the deal with this character or how it all got started? I haven't read about the Jonathan saga in years.

Oh, now you have to tell us more about this.

So do I. I think KM is killing it and the relationships there feel right as well as with Nicole's kids (though Martin is a bit old for Daphnee Duplaix). It doesn't take me out of the show so much as a couple weaker actors do, but this is Week 3 - things will get ironed out.

I really do not think Martin's 'run for president' is ever going to materialize on-air. It's a story point about his ambitions vs. his skeletons in his closet.

I'm actually surprised how brutish he comes off in these mid-'80s episodes during his Marland return. I am used to an older, somewhat quieter James, but here he is very quick to anger and put his hands on people whenever the mask slips. You don't see that much in soap archvillains of his ilk - you really think 'this dude could hurt me.'

I think it's a little soon to say the Duprees will not have any rival families. I think they just didn't start with the classical 'two families' setup.

To Jeffries' dubious credit, this is the House response: Schumer's contact point is here.

I am inclined to agree, and I think elements of the show's ending on the network proved that out.

I actually think they've taken pains to show working-class people (Mona, Dana/Eva, Vanessa's mother, the somnambulant Ashley and Derek). I just don't think that's enough, and I would bring in a real poor family at some point. I wouldn't mind it being tied in to Dana or Mona. I like Mona a lot.

I never realized that was Broderick too, and forgot the Jenny Gardner parallel. It makes sense. I think Tomlin (who was prone to falling for online hype, including with Ty Treadway and the Todd/Tea island debacle) was enamored of JM due to a very early, somewhat positive response to Cristian and Jen in her early months, but it quickly became clear she was terrible. Then it was All Jen All the Time for what felt like two years but was only maybe one, until Natalie took off like a rocket and Cristian and Natalie worked as an organic outgrowth of their unforeseen chemistry. Tomlin wisely took the off-ramp. Making Jen a scheming princess (and then later a Marty ripoff wild child under Malone II) worked better, but Morris was never going to be much of an actress. Don't forget Paul Michael Valley's brief turn as the skeevy NY photographer!

Schumer has announced he has caved and will vote for cloture and let the Trump budget go through with the usual rationales Dems have floated to accommodate Republican hostage-taking for 20+ years - we can't let the GOP shut down the government, they'll be more inclined to deal later, etc. Which is delusional in this environment AFAIC. The vote is tomorrow morning. When even distinct non-radicals like Susan Rice or Neera Tanden are pissed about this, you've gone too far. I have listened to excuses for this grudging equivocation to Republican shutdown threats for decades and understood it at other times even when I didn't like it. But I think ol' Chuck has badly underestimated voter anger against the very weak Dem approach to things atm, thinking it will swing back to being business as usual, and it's time for him (and a lot of other people) to go from leadership. That is going to be messy as fúck, but this kind of weak way forward can't go on. Oh, the ping pong paddles at the SOTU were idiotic too BTW.

Yes, I remember hearing early on that Agnes was Phantom of the Erica and I was surprised as a teenager, but I didn't hate it.

Not all soap villains are created equal. Roger Thorpe, Iris Carrington, Damian Smith, Alex Olanov, even the earlier Kristen Blake, etc. are not the same as Sheila Carter, Stefano DiMera or the later Kristen or James Stenbeck. If care is taken with what Dana gets up to or commits, or she gets some rehabilitation, she can run on contract for a long time.

Good luck with the midterms, Chuck and Hakeem.

Whereas I think she was given way too much material.

I just remember Nash's debut with the Hamptons remote feeling very paper-thin, as did the whole ugly Tess story. I didn't understand their connection or anything redeeming about Tess in particular and never did. Forbes March did have chemistry with Bree and they had their fans, so there's that I guess. But I never got behind them together because Tess was so repugnant, particularly when she hounded poor Viki into a stroke. Rex and Adriana, for me, was much more compelling as something teased late in Malone II when he was still a shady character vs. when they tried to make them a real couple, which is around the time Higley and co. caught on to the audience interest in the early, vaguely omnisexual grifter Rex (the character had originally been intended by Gary Tomlin to be gay and seduce Seth Anderson before becoming a full-on schemer in Malone II). Then they instead began to frontload him for the rest of the show's network run as a heroic lead. Which made him and JPL increasingly unbearable as the years went on. I forgot all about Ginger Foley. Everything about the Margaret saga (but especially Tari Signor, who I think Higley had intended to 'redeem' with amnesia and pair with David until what seemed like a last-minute rewrite to finally kill her off) I have tried to block out tbh. But YMMV. I know everything has its fans.

Watching BTG vs. this is a very different experience. The show clicks along, somewhat geared I think towards a new binge-watching demographic unfamiliar to the daily grind of soaps (but watching, as social feedback and numbers have proven), yet so far it doesn't feel rushed or un-daytime to me. They just manage to keep plot and character moving at a strong pace. I can catch up on 2-3 episodes quickly and not feel like I've run or walked a marathon.

LMAOOO I love how they keep cutting back to Dana decked out to the alleged nines in her black leather and sipping her wine in her efficiency apartment, wearing her snuggie slippers no less! That is character without having to say anything. Well done. The kids are too old but they're good so I'll allow it. The girl is especially good. This show is actually well-spoiled for young female talent (except for teakwood Naomi). The issue atm is many of the men are either mid, bad (Tomas), their parents/relations, or Derek. I'm sure that will change. Robo-Martin really acted like those kids had never met Mr. Smith before. "If the white man bribed you with candy or other DEI promises, YOU can tell ME!" And then there's Doug. "You better get used to my affection, Vanessa! Because we have definitely been married many years and met before today!" Why is Smitty dressed like he and his siblings are going to fly away with Peter Pan to Neverland? Not the Ranch.