DRW50

You're probably right. So maybe they already knew he was going and that's why he is getting this plot.

I agree they could have done more with him, but even if they had tried, I think there was a lot of damage done and the character had just been gone for too long without enough on the current canvas to really make it work. I think Lucky last really had worth as a character when JJ left in 1999. He could have under Greg Vaughan but Geary and Guza spit on that at every turn. They could have done more with him than the icky Kristina/Lucky relationship that seemed to be in the works though. Amazing how Frank has made so many bad choices with Kristina after presumably paying a big price to bring Kate in.

I have a feeling if he does return, they will move him on to someone they see as fresher (like Sasha). Just depends on whether ABC folds.

Very sorry to hear of her passing. Aside from a few clips I've only ever "known" her through scripts and photos, but she along with the rest of the original cast helped make a show that changed daytime forever. We're still talking about one of her major stories on here to this very day.

I doubt he will affect the ratings that much - they didn't improve noticeably when he returned in 2010, and they didn't when he came back last year. I think most of the viewer base had moved on from Lucky a long time ago. The problems are...so much else. If they actually use Liz, that would be inevitable, although probably more along the lines of Ric pining for Liz and Ava coming after her. That's it exactly. I suppose that's also how Frank saw him. The only difference is Kevin did get some decent material here and there.

I'll miss him too (still can't believe those were actual publicity photos - Joe Breen must have had a coronary), but he won't be gone forever. Rauch did well at making people feel they were important (as long as they were willing to play along). That's probably why Erika Slezak loved him (he also gave her better story than he gave Zimmer). I think Kim has a certain amount of self-awareness but also needed to feel like she was the big star and desperately needed by the show. Wheeler was clearly incapable of expressing that.

I posted this a few weeks ago but it's worth popping up again as Grant does get asked about return rumors, that Paul Rauch had tried to get the show revived for years but P&G just would not sell it.

Forbes also likely got the primetime career Zimmer wanted - never a huge star, admittedly, but a stalwart, able to dip in and out when she saw fit and generally not paying an industry price. Zimmer felt extremely hurt by her lack of success after leaving GL and even more hurt when JFP made it clear GL had moved on from Reva. (JFP, self-sabotaging as ever, soon made it clear that was not actually the case, but with a stronger producer, GL could have genuinely moved on from Reva) That's interesting. I suppose that's what they always say, and there was some precedent as Passions had moved to Direct TV. I guess Passions being canned so fast (faster than many expected, I think) put a big nail in the coffin. And we haven't had any revivals or moves since that have worked, even though Neighbours came close. I'll try to find that promo.

He's been written that way for about twenty years, so I suppose it is fitting. They should have done repair work, but I still think this return was pushed on Frank by ABC and he sandbagged the whole thing. If so, I guess he got what he wanted. I mostly feel bad for Becky Herbst. I've never loved Liz, but she should be given more respect than she is by TPTB, rather than always being a step away from losing her job.

There's a 1997 promo somewhere of Annie vs. Reva which ends with Reva throwing her purse across the room. IIRC, from what soap magazines at the time said, that was not an actual scene but was (allegedly) a real confrontation which somehow got into a promo. I do wish Wheeler had moved faster - maybe that was as fast as she could go, or maybe she took for granted that they would stay on. I know the show probably couldn't have improved drastically, but I do wish they'd had one year, and Irna's babies could have ended at the same time. I have already spent enough years comparing the GL and ATWT finales, but I agree. As someone who quit watching GL in disgust around the early/mid '00s the show did remind of its old self at the end. ATWT's ending was an extended Goutman ego trip. One show had a poignant death of a character whose passing was long overdue...one slaughtered a vibrant young man so we could get James Rehborn (wonderful as he was) playing chess for homophobes. The Grant Aleksander interview I posted a few weeks ago had him talking about learning GL was canceled because Ron Raines called him at Home Depot. He said they knew it was probably going to happen, but that believing something will happen and it actually happening are very different.

I guess he really was like Luke...

Thanks. I just hope this choice isn't why Billy is leaving, as they should have done all they could story-wise to make him want to stay. Maybe he had already told them he was going. I hope so.

Given the ratings struggles and likely budget issues as a result, I could see them cutting their losses, but they did have the Kristina secret brewing, which is one of the reasons I thought he was staying (that and just assuming JJ would be OK would be fine with sticking around even if he was poorly used). I should have known when the Kristina secret was exposed to Liz so matter-of-factly and she didn't really mind, which was not in character for her. It seems like Frank sandbagged this return from the start, maybe because it was forced on him, maybe because he figured JJ wouldn't stay (if JJ chose to leave). I think the main issue is Lucky just didn't really fit in with the canvas and hasn't for a long time. His child with Liz was never treated as an important character (and the show having him be gay made that even less likely to ever happen), and the Spencers mostly feel like a part of the show's past - Laura is just there, has mostly been just there for ages, and Lulu has mainly been a plot point enlivened by Alexa Havens. JJ and Becky still had chemistry, but not enough to make up for Lucky telling her she only had value while bleeding from a rape. I actually think it would have made more sense to have them split because of the Kristina lie, but at least Liz did get a moment to have agency (as much as the show ever lets her have) and if JJ and Becky wanted Lucky and Liz to part on positive terms, I can respect that. This does feel like a bit of a wasted opportunity, especially since we all know Liz is still not going to have anything to do, but they shouldn't have brought the character back. Nor should they have brought Jason back. A weird world where a recast, could-go-at-any-time Lucas and revolving door Ric both have more successful return stints than the boy who won the hearts of millions...but that's modern GH for you. I don't really mind Isaiah, although I don't pay enough attention to care. I agree there was no plot this time around. It's mainly the difference between no plot and a [!@#$%^&*] plot - I'd take the former. They did seem to be setting up a little something, but either the hate for Kristina got in the way or JJ just didn't want to play it. Either way, no big loss. I do hope they may write Kristina out too. At least for a few years. Oh and this make Guy Wilson stepping in for that important first kiss feel even stranger.

I would have to respectfully disagree...I think everything in JJ's last return nuked the character for future value.

Thanks as always @slick jones

Happy birthday, Bill.

I was incredibly moved by these scenes, especially Peter's performance. It felt so tender and real, especially when you remember Bo just got out of a years-long coma and wasn't going to be able to put up a front. You're reminded of how long these legends have populated the show when you have a 70 year old man grieving men who were almost 90 or 100, but Bo's response to Victor's death was a poignant reminder of how fresh these wounds are no matter your age. Normally these types of moments don't even make it in soap episodes in recent decades as they are seen as too boring. The more somber moments being balanced by Bo meeting his grandchildren was also lovely. And the scene where Bo forgave Shawn may be the only time I've been in lock with Brandon Beemer's take on the part. There's a certain element of suffocation with soaps, as shown here, when you remember so many of the kids are named after long dead relatives, or when they grew up, were paired with the kids of other longtime characters. That aspect always makes me yearn for new blood (new blood that doesn't suck, anyway), but there are other moments, like those with Bo, which make me appreciate all the history the show has.

@Dion @AMCOLTLLover @Bright Eyes

Thanks as always @Huntress always appreciate you popping in and sharing info about these shows. What are you thinking of them at present?

Kevin Kline's description of soap fans makes me laugh.

Not to ramble too far off topic but it happens a lot with comics too, especially only wanting to keep cheap talent around and pushing out creative voices. There are some patches where creatives can go to start their own worlds...wish that was true with soaps, but who knows, maybe it can happen someday. I never thought we'd get a new soap this year.

I think it's become more common in other genres in recent decades, as the industry as a whole has collapsed - these are complaints that have been made about creative talents in the MCU, Star Wars, Doctor Who, etc. The MCU is in that place now as they burnt so much goodwill that even when their new movie got strong reviews, the audience didn't show up - similar to how AW got some praise for their 89-93 material compared to some of the barren years beforehand, but viewers just weren't coming back. (I know they did return, somewhat, in the JFP run, but not enough to make up for the big budget she used)

I saw some people mentioning this and I was curious too - did Bo already know Caroline was dead? Maybe they decided it was too much for Bo to process losing Caroline along with Victor and Doug.

@asafi Thanks for sharing. A nice milestone. I'm not sure if she is referring to just DAYS, as otherwise she isn't alone (Ken Barlow and Rita Fairclough on Corrie are two others).

Someone making that must have had a laugh. I have to admit I never saw any chemistry between them.