In the Bill Bell social issue storyline vein, Michael Baldwin might apply.

Michael was originally the villain in the sexual harassment storyline but he was released from prison, had a redemption arc to become an anti-hero/romantic leading man, and a family was built around him.

9 hours ago, Gray Bunny said:

 

Marcie (Kathy Brier) on One Life to Live. 

 

This is a great one. She was a recurring support player to Jen and Joey, and started to outshine, and outlast, her peer group on the show. Am I misremembering that she was the University’s radio host? 
This was one of the clear cases where the portrayer made a role bigger than it was written. 
 

Devon on Y&R was a surprising rise to prominence. I swear that for the first 5 years he was just Dru/Lily’s talk-to character and he has that offscreen romance with Roxanne (Tatiana Ali). Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought he would evolve into one of the big business leaders in Genoa City, or a romantic lead in one of the hottest love triangles (with his own Father!): Devon/ Hillary/ Neil

Cornelius Smith as AMC’s Frankie was a surprise. He clearly was not initially cast as Frankie. He was a throwaway character in that weird Greenlee poisoning story. Once Darnell/Debbi were locked in to return, and after the internet clamoured about his resemblance to Jesse, he was now Frankie. All the characters that met him before, had to pretend they were “keeping his identity secret”: Joe, Opal, Greenlee. All these characters would have recognised Frankie off the bat. 
 

 

I never knew that about Frankie Hubbard's (re-)re-introduction and him not having been that character at first!

That reminds me of how Days had Theresa and Paige cross paths several times, because of their mutual connection to JJ, but at no point did they recognize one another, despite soon being revealed to be aunt and niece (due to Theresa's half-sister Eve being Paige's mom). Paige was definitely not going to be the daughter of Eve Donovan when she first arrived.

They never did much of use with Paige's retconned Hernandez connection, either.

I do think Gabi as a character holds an interesting spot on the Days canvas, but as @dc11786 points out, it's more her potential than what's been done with her. They haven't done nearly enough with her, Sonny, and Will in the past few years -- they throw in a mention here and there, rather than letting their stories all bounce off one another -- and tossing her into these nonstop, half-baked CEO wars hasn't exactly helped the character sing. 

(I remember the rumor that Josh Duhon, who was just coming off GH at the time, had auditioned for Will. I originally thought they would pair Will and Melanie, too, just based on Basic Soap Math, but the decision to cast Dylan Patton really solidified Will as being about 15 at that time. There was also that weird jockeying of "Which one is Carly's kid? Melanie or Mia?" that seemed to bring onscreen the tension in choosing one of those characters to run with.)

 

Yeah, the whole Frankie thing was odd. He was introduced as a dude living in the woods under an alias, IIRC. But it wasn't that long before Debbi and Darnell returned, AFAIK - maybe a few weeks - so I can't imagine they didn't already have the Angie/Jesse plans in the offing when he was first hired. So I don't think it was a rewrite so much as a very weird introduction.

Edited May 25, 20232 yr by Vee

35 minutes ago, Vee said:

Yeah, the whole Frankie thing was odd. He was introduced as a dude living in the woods under an alias, IIRC. But it wasn't that long before Debbi and Darnell returned, AFAIK - maybe a few weeks - so I can't imagine they didn't already have the Angie/Jesse plans in the offing when he was first hired. So I don't think it was a rewrite so much as a very weird introduction.

Thanks! I'm gonna have to dig into this a bit.

I had completely blocked out the entire Jason Olive "Frank" era in the early 2000s, too. Was there even anything to connect Cornelius's Frankie to that earlier iteration? He had something to do with Mia, maybe?

16 minutes ago, Michael said:

I had completely blocked out the entire Jason Olive "Frank" era in the early 2000s, too. Was there even anything to connect Cornelius's Frankie to that earlier iteration? He had something to do with Mia, maybe?

Not much that I can recall. IIRC Frankie and Mia had a child together off-canvas who they gave up for adoption. The whole thing with him abandoning filmmaking because he'd filmed the overdose of Simone's brother for a documentary was silly. I think they may have mentioned Mia or the baby when CS' Frankie came on, but nothing else.

Yes! I knew there was something I was forgetting, the bit with Simone's brother. Thanks.

3 hours ago, Vee said:

Not much that I can recall. IIRC Frankie and Mia had a child together off-canvas who they gave up for adoption. The whole thing with him abandoning filmmaking because he'd filmed the overdose of Simone's brother for a documentary was silly. I think they may have mentioned Mia or the baby when CS' Frankie came on, but nothing else.

I don’t remember Mia or Simone ever mentioned by Frankie in the last run. It would have been a fun story to dive into with Liza still on the canvas and Frankie/Randi moving into “happy couple” phase of their relationship. A long lost son only sucks when there is no basis for it (eg Damon). 
 

The only mention of that era of Frankie in the last run I could remember was at Myrtle’s funeral.  Angie made the mention that she was hesitant of Frankie moving to PV, but was resolved when Myrtle told her he could live with her at the Boarding house. 
 

That 2002 Boarding House crew had so much potential: Frankie, Simone, Maggie, Bianca. I wish we had more of a chance to dive into that setting. The boarding house was such a vital part of Pine Valley’a mythos. 

Unlikely

Y&R

Who would have thought Casey's trampy sister Nikki would become a Genoa City leading light?

Or  that cute teen model Cricket who popped up now and then would still be with us fighting for justice?

Y&R - JT Hellstrom was a bit character surrounding the next-Gen Billy set. It wasn't long before TL was on contract and outlasted every other original actor from his group - Billy, Mac, Raul, Brittany, etc.

On 5/24/2023 at 9:01 PM, dc11786 said:

I think Chad was supposed to be a solid player in the teen scene of 2009-2010. The characters who were introduced in that period typically had at least two stories that would be made fairly clear at the arrival. Chad didn't even know about the baby Mia had because he had been off in rehab for a drug problem (which has never really been revisited). His initial arc was a) learning of the existence of the child and b) actively trying to win back Mia even though she was involved with Will. There story was definitely a C-story at best and I think it only played out several times a month. It was definitely interlaced into the larger narrative of baby switch saga with Grace and Sydney. 

I think what helped elevate Chad as a character were he was the most charismatic and capable of the younger set he was in. Dylan Patton and Gabriela Rodrigues were very green as Will and Gabi. Taylor Sprietler wasn't much better, but showed a little energy in her last few month (not much, but more than before) when they turned her into a vixen before Madeline paid her off to leave town. 

On the topic of Chad's bizarre origins, I believe his original parentage may have also been tacked on at last minute. Chad was initially Chad Peterson and then Chad Peterson-Woods when they decided he was going to be the son of D.A. Peterson (David Leisure). 

And Mia, while certainly not a long term character, may have also been a bit of a case of a change in story. Originally, at the end of 2008, the casting call for Will had him as a college baseball star who had an interest in Melanie. At the time, I felt the plan was to make Melanie Nicole's daughter as I seem to recall there was a suggestion in late 2008 before Trent died that they had a child together. Melanie's parentage, which I imagined Sami would have kept from Nicole, seemed life the original second arc of the baby saga that was dumped pretty early. Then they decided to make Mia a more permanent character and cast Dylan Patton as Will and the story entered more C-level territory. A lot of these elements eventually popped up in other stories (what I imagined would have been tension between Melanie and Will over Nick became tension between Melanie and Nathan over Nick as well as the revelation that Melanie was the daughter of Carly and Daniel). 

Before Chandler Massey was cast, I think they had already set in motion the plans to build a frienemy relationship between Chad and Will with Chad's parentage being the source of drama. The secret that Madeline was Chad's mother was a story built not just for Chad, but for Kate and Stefano. I imagine the longterm plan was for Will to become jealous, or at least feel complicated emotions, about Kate's mothering Chad. Massey and Diedrick played very well off each other, but finding a strong female partner took a lot of away from their story potential.  

I think Gabi was definitely broadly defined when she arrived, but the nature of her arc was pretty fascinating from the perspective of how linear it felt. When she was originally introduced, Gabi was very nasty to Arianna because she had been in prison because of a nasty relationship with a boyfriend that had landed Arianna in prison on drug charges. I don't remember if Gabi was religious at the beginning, but the character was definitely naive and sheltered. Camila Banus came on for Arianna's death which was definitely a life changing moment for the character as I don't think they had completely reconciled. I believe had Tomlin/Higley/Whitsell had stayed, Gabi would have ended up pregnant by Will in late 2011 with Will and Sonny hooking up around the same time. Utilizing the fake stalker arc, which was one of the strongest stories from MarDar's run in my opinion, and pairing Gabi with Nick was just brilliant. As much as I hated losing Nick and Gabi, having Gabi leave her daughter to go off to jail because she had an abusive man in her life (like her sister Arianna) seemed like a great way to touch on the character's origins. I hope, one day, they explore the impact of Gabi's absence on her daughter's life and having her reflect on the way she treated her own sister. 

Thanks for that detailed history. I remember thinking Mia was going to be Carly’s daughter and stay tied to the show while I forgot their was an original and very pointless Gabi. I really don’t remember much of what early Chad did. It wasn’t until the summer of 2010 AKA “The Summer of Chill” of when Chad 1.0 & Will had what should have been the origin story for their great romance. I guess the show just wasn’t ready for that yet lol and it amounted to an unrequited crush sadly. 

3 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

It wasn’t until the summer of 2010 AKA “The Summer of Chill” of when Chad 1.0 & Will had what should have been the origin story for their great romance.

Wow, was it THAT long ago?  I remember so well when I and others on this board were campaigning for "Chill" to happen.  (Some campaigned for it harder than others, lol.)

 

5 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

Thanks for that detailed history. I remember thinking Mia was going to be Carly’s daughter and stay tied to the show while I forgot their was an original and very pointless Gabi. I really don’t remember much of what early Chad did. It wasn’t until the summer of 2010 AKA “The Summer of Chill” of when Chad 1.0 & Will had what should have been the origin story for their great romance. I guess the show just wasn’t ready for that yet lol and it amounted to an unrequited crush sadly. 

When they brought back Vivian back to Salem in early December 2009, they immediately reestablished that she was the woman who had given birth to Phillip. At the time, Phillip was on the outs with Kate because of her marriage to Stefano, which she had been blackmailed into because of her role in poisoning Chloe during Chloe's marriage to Lucas. The show had built up a lot of dramatic tension in the prior year between Stefano and Victor with the dock wars plot and then the renewable energy story before shifting it into more family drama. Tony died during a fight with Phillip, and Phillip I believe was suspected of murder. Nicole, who was emotionally tied to both a Dimera (EJ) and a Kiriakis (Brady), was the one who cleared Phillip. I don't think the Dimeras forgave Phillip quickly for what they thought was his role. Shortly after, Stefano was "poisoned" after going to Java Cafe and being served by a Greek server. Stefano automatically assumed it was Victor's fault, but instead it turned out to be undiagnosed diabetes. This led to the introduction of Owen (Wes Ramsey) the Kiriakis gardener who kidnapped Phillip's girlfriend (fiancee?) Stephanie and dumped her in the morgue where his father (played by Gordon Thomson) worked. Stefano's blackmail had just been the latest tie between the two families as Daniel, Victor's godson and Chloe's lover, was being accused of being behind Chloe's poisoned induced coma. Vivian's return with a her unrequited love for Victor and her past marriage to Stefano turned the Victor/Kate/Stefano triangle into a quad.

The way the show was being structured, it was clear that Melanie was going to be the daughter because Vivian wanted to kill Carly's daughter and also wanted to gain Phillip's love and respect. Mia was a red herring, but I also think there may have been an attempt to build an actual bond between Mia and Carly due to the fact they had both given up their children. Also, prior to Carly's return, there had been quite a big deal made about Mia's mother, who I think had abandoned Mia or was an addict of some sort. With the amount of build that Mia's mother was given, I think that Mia's mother was originally intended to come onto the canvas, but the cancellation of "Guiding Light" led to "Days" securing Crystal Chappell and going in a different direction. 

The one element that was never really addressed was that Melanie was also sorta of Frankie Brady's "sister" too as well as his niece. I have to wonder if there wasn't plans at some point in 2011 to bring back Frankie as a love interest for Jennifer in a quad with Daniel and Carly. 

Chad really didn't have much story after the initial reveal that Sydney was supposedly his daughter. This was mostly because everyone in his story group was weak. I think the "big" story for Chad was a ski weekend that all the younger ones were supposed to go on in February, 2010, after Chandler Massey was introduced. A ski weekend which I never think happened onscreen. It was just a bunch of romantic yearning between naive Gabi and worldly Chad with Mia acting super jealous and Will super clueless.There was a brief attempt in the winter of 2009/2010 to make Mia a vixen, but by March or April 2010 the show had secured Jessica Tuck for an arc as Madeline, Chad's mother and Kate's former hooker pal, for Chad's secret parentage the show accepted defeat with Mia.

I don't think "Chill" was intended to be romantic any more than Phillip/Rick or Dennis/Jamie though there was always going to be homoerotic vibes given the intense emotional intimacy between these men. If I recall correctly, in the summer of 2010, Kate had lured Will into the Dimera camp and there may have even been a suggestion that Will was going to become Stefano's protege, which I felt would have been immediately threatened when the truth about Chad's parentage came out and would have caused more animosity. I don't think it did in the end, but given how weak Rodrigues and Spritler were the show had no real choice which is also why I suspect that Mia wasn't replaced with another young female until they brought on Abigail nearly seven months after Mia left town. Though, they did beef up Kinsey's role in the immediate aftermath of Mia's departure by having her family lose their money and Kinsey deciding that she was going to turn tricks like Chloe to make a quick buck. I wouldn't be surprised though if the "Chill" reaction led to Sonny's introduction as it was fairly obvious that Sonny was brought on for Will even before MarDar arrived. 

Now, I am wondering if the decision to drop the potential Dimera heir angle between Chad and Will was due to the decision to instead go the route of Will and Sonny becoming a couple, but not before Will knocked up Gabi with Gabi passing the child off as Chad's. I remember there was a bit of an arc about Gabi have mono which I remember people thinking was dumb, but I felt it was somehow going to be used to either cover up a pregnancy or used to alter a pregnancy timeline with Gabi claiming she wasn't pregnant, but that her mono had recurred. This would have given Chad/Abigail, Sonny/Will, and Chad/Will angst because I think Chad would have agreed to go through with the lie for Gabi due to his loss of Grace, the daughter he never knew. 

And one element that made the Melanie being Carly's daughter story interesting was that Vivian had formed a bond/relationship with Melanie before that fact came out... and Vivian felt conflicted over what she should do.. and ultimately decided not to kill Melanie.  There also were a few scenes where Vivian and Mia didn't like one another... which was another red herring.

3 hours ago, Khan said:

Wow, was it THAT long ago?  I remember so well when I and others on this board were campaigning for "Chill" to happen.  (Some campaigned for it harder than others, lol.)

Haha people had been campaigning for Will to be gay going back to the Christopher Gerse years, but yes time sure does fly!

 

42 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

 

When they brought back Vivian back to Salem in early December 2009, they immediately reestablished that she was the woman who had given birth to Phillip. At the time, Phillip was on the outs with Kate because of her marriage to Stefano, which she had been blackmailed into because of her role in poisoning Chloe during Chloe's marriage to Lucas. The show had built up a lot of dramatic tension in the prior year between Stefano and Victor with the dock wars plot and then the renewable energy story before shifting it into more family drama. Tony died during a fight with Phillip, and Phillip I believe was suspected of murder. Nicole, who was emotionally tied to both a Dimera (EJ) and a Kiriakis (Brady), was the one who cleared Phillip. I don't think the Dimeras forgave Phillip quickly for what they thought was his role. Shortly after, Stefano was "poisoned" after going to Java Cafe and being served by a Greek server. Stefano automatically assumed it was Victor's fault, but instead it turned out to be undiagnosed diabetes. This led to the introduction of Owen (Wes Ramsey) the Kiriakis gardener who kidnapped Phillip's girlfriend (fiancee?) Stephanie and dumped her in the morgue where his father (played by Gordon Thomson) worked. Stefano's blackmail had just been the latest tie between the two families as Daniel, Victor's godson and Chloe's lover, was being accused of being behind Chloe's poisoned induced coma. Vivian's return with a her unrequited love for Victor and her past marriage to Stefano turned the Victor/Kate/Stefano triangle into a quad.

The way the show was being structured, it was clear that Melanie was going to be the daughter because Vivian wanted to kill Carly's daughter and also wanted to gain Phillip's love and respect. Mia was a red herring, but I also think there may have been an attempt to build an actual bond between Mia and Carly due to the fact they had both given up their children. Also, prior to Carly's return, there had been quite a big deal made about Mia's mother, who I think had abandoned Mia or was an addict of some sort. With the amount of build that Mia's mother was given, I think that Mia's mother was originally intended to come onto the canvas, but the cancellation of "Guiding Light" led to "Days" securing Crystal Chappell and going in a different direction. 

The one element that was never really addressed was that Melanie was also sorta of Frankie Brady's "sister" too as well as his niece. I have to wonder if there wasn't plans at some point in 2011 to bring back Frankie as a love interest for Jennifer in a quad with Daniel and Carly. 

Chad really didn't have much story after the initial reveal that Sydney was supposedly his daughter. This was mostly because everyone in his story group was weak. I think the "big" story for Chad was a ski weekend that all the younger ones were supposed to go on in February, 2010, after Chandler Massey was introduced. A ski weekend which I never think happened onscreen. It was just a bunch of romantic yearning between naive Gabi and worldly Chad with Mia acting super jealous and Will super clueless.There was a brief attempt in the winter of 2009/2010 to make Mia a vixen, but by March or April 2010 the show had secured Jessica Tuck for an arc as Madeline, Chad's mother and Kate's former hooker pal, for Chad's secret parentage the show accepted defeat with Mia.

I don't think "Chill" was intended to be romantic any more than Phillip/Rick or Dennis/Jamie though there was always going to be homoerotic vibes given the intense emotional intimacy between these men. If I recall correctly, in the summer of 2010, Kate had lured Will into the Dimera camp and there may have even been a suggestion that Will was going to become Stefano's protege, which I felt would have been immediately threatened when the truth about Chad's parentage came out and would have caused more animosity. I don't think it did in the end, but given how weak Rodrigues and Spritler were the show had no real choice which is also why I suspect that Mia wasn't replaced with another young female until they brought on Abigail nearly seven months after Mia left town. Though, they did beef up Kinsey's role in the immediate aftermath of Mia's departure by having her family lose their money and Kinsey deciding that she was going to turn tricks like Chloe to make a quick buck. I wouldn't be surprised though if the "Chill" reaction led to Sonny's introduction as it was fairly obvious that Sonny was brought on for Will even before MarDar arrived. 

Now, I am wondering if the decision to drop the potential Dimera heir angle between Chad and Will was due to the decision to instead go the route of Will and Sonny becoming a couple, but not before Will knocked up Gabi with Gabi passing the child off as Chad's. I remember there was a bit of an arc about Gabi have mono which I remember people thinking was dumb, but I felt it was somehow going to be used to either cover up a pregnancy or used to alter a pregnancy timeline with Gabi claiming she wasn't pregnant, but that her mono had recurred. This would have given Chad/Abigail, Sonny/Will, and Chad/Will angst because I think Chad would have agreed to go through with the lie for Gabi due to his loss of Grace, the daughter he never knew. 

Again thanks for the detailed analysis! I appreciate the mention of Kinsey as I always liked when her and Tad would show up as they appeared to be more interesting and more fun that what was going on with the rest of the teen set lol. I wasn’t a fan they made Tad to be a stereotypical homophobe towards Will later on but I was glad they eventually redeemed Tad or T before the show dropped him.

I agree that teen set was pretty weak I remember Mia most of them all. I did like Dylan Patton as Will more than Gerse but unfortunately Patton if I recall right went off the rails in real life with his drug addiction so he was replaced by Massey. 
 

I thought “Chill” had been wishful thinking until there was a subplot where Chad was going to leave Salem but didn’t want to upset Salem and elected to stay in Salem and Will was so thrilled/overjoyed, and Will was uncomfortable around girls and reluctant to hang out with anyone not named up Chad until Gabi became a sudden random and bizarre object of affection for Will.