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Not even Coach K could get Duke out of this one...


Danni

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There are racist black people out there. While it may not be in the same class as white racists, there is a group of blacks who speak out negatively about Jews, Asians, whites, heck, even light skinned blacks and biracial people (which I am).

I remember watching Montel years ago and a woman was on there in her African garb saying hateful things about whites and interracial couples. To me, that was the equivalent of a KKK clansperson in their ghost costume and saying hateful things about non-whites. So racism doesn't come from just one ethnic group. People from all races can be ignorant jackasses.

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In my class last semester, it was vehemently proposed that Blacks couldn't be racist because there was an absence of power. That while prejudice and discriminatory, those who hold those views are not racist because they lack the means to exert their feelings. I happen to disagree.

On the news, they were discussing the possibility of a third indictment. It was also reported that the NAACP has come into the fray to protect her rights. The students @ Duke are supporting the players.

Regardless of the outcome, I want to set up a National Defense Trust for women who are up against the monsoon of class and priviledge. I have no respect for hookers and strippers, but their profession alone should not bar them from belief and justice.

Nonetheless, my opinion is either way on who is truly guilty here.

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It's not so much means to exert their feelings, but rather reams to actually oppress another group of people. Black people can't oppress whites, Asians, Latinos, etc., not when they are subject to that institutionalized oppression. I firmly believe that black people can be as prejuidiced as the next guy, but it's important to note that prejudice is not the same thing as racism.

Well, there were three players involved in the rape.

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Are you serious? So you honestly believe only the majority race can be racist, meaning only white people can be racist in this country. How close minded is that?! I know we are not suppose to get all heated, but damn that's not just an opinion you have Danni, thats ignorance. All races have plenty of folks who are racist. Gimme a break! I dont care if this thread is closed your comment pissed me the hell off.....

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That's not ignorance. That's reality. Some black person may be prejudiced towards you because you're white, but they can't oppress you. They can't make you believe that you're inferior to them or even sub-human. Why? It's because from the moment you were born, being white gives you a certain priviledge that non-whites will not have. You will never have to live for a moment thinking that you're inferior because this country has mandated from day one that "White is Right". Racism is more than just prejudice, and to just simply equate the two is to devalue the significance of racism on this country.

Quite frankly, I don't care if my comment upsets you. I'm not going to apologize for my belief and for stating it.

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Maybe you have never taken sociology or even looked under the word racism in the dictionary, but racism occurs in all, on, off, left, right, under, through around, and against ALL races, not just the white race. A black person can be racist for walking up to any white guy(or any other non black race) and killing them because they are white. That could also be a hate crime as way just so you know. ;)

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Well obviously it's a hate crime. I'm not disputing that. However, racism isn't just prejudice. It's prejudice plus power to oppress. A black person can be prejudiced towards a white person, however the down right fact that said black person can't oppress the white person makes it solely prejudice. That's what it comes down to. I don't need a sociology class to see it. I live in a world where people will automatically have suspicions of me and devalue my humanity based on the color of my skin. Even if I did hate white people, which I don't, I couldn't devalue their humanity. I couldn't devalue your humanity. I couldn't make you inferior because society says otherwise. You, as a white man, are the standard.

I suggest the book Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria? by Beverly Daniel Tatum.

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A couple of people have recommended this book to me and I actually want to read it one day. I also grew up in Nashville in public schools and it is so true, that all the black kids sat together in the cafeteria and vice versa for white folks, even the Asians and Hispanics divided themselves.

I now see what you are trying to say and feel about the word racism, but I just disagree with you.

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Right off the bat, Tatum gives you a definition about racism that's similar to my view. I think she explains it better than I do.

Lord knows I've experienced that same thing though. I go to a school like Duke with the differences being size (2,100), and being Div. III. All in all, it was the same deal. Three percent black population on campus (15% minorities overall), and people wonder why we stick together. In fact, one group actually accused a club, two houses, and a section of a dorm as being "racist" because they're based on people of color. I'm sorry but what in the blue hell are these things doing to oppress them? How are we causing them suffering?

You don't have to agree with me. What would be the fun of discussion if everyone did? I think that confining racism to just being prejudice is diminishing its magnitude. The reality is that minorities can't make the majority inferior. The majority won't even consider letting that happen. They don't want to lose their power.

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I think it is safe to say that you are both right, in your on way. The thing is, the term "racism" has been defined differently from one piece of literature to another, and it just all boils down to which definition you prefer.

I believe Danni leans more towards Tatum's definition of racism ("Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?" is a really good read, by the way). She defines it as "a system of advantage based on race." According to Tatum, people of color can and do have racial prejudices, but they "are not racist because they do not systematically benefit from racism." Similarly, Tatum also reserves the term "sexist" for men for much the same reason. Only men systematically benefit from gender-based prejudices.

On the other hand, "racism" has also been used in a much broader context in literature, defining it as racial prejudice. And, if I understand correctly, this is more along the lines of where Kirk is coming from. As a result of this type of definition, the terms "racism" and "prejudice" might be used interchangeably.

Regardless of which definition you prefer or believe is right, I think we all agree, to quote Dr. Tatum, "people of any racial group can hold hateful attitudes and behave in racially discriminatory and bigoted ways."

I have to add, just based on my personal experience as a Educational Psychology graduate student, Tatum's definition seems to be the one used primarily in the research and studies on "racism" that I've come across. This is coming from having courses in "Foundations in Educational Sociology," "Multicultural and Multi-Ethnic Education in American Schools," "Multicultural Counselling Psychology," etc.

I hope that clears the air just a little bit. :)

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DURHAM, N.C. (AP) — The woman who says she was raped by three members of Duke's lacrosse team also told police 10 years ago she was raped by three men, filing a 1996 complaint claiming she had been assaulted three years earlier when she was 14.

Authorities in nearby Granville County said Thursday that none of the men named in the decade-old report were ever charged with sexual assault there, but they didn't have details why.

A phone number for the accuser has been disconnected and her family declined to comment to The Associated Press. But relatives told Essence magazine in an online story this week that the woman declined to pursue the case out of fear for her safety.

The existence of the report surprised defense attorneys, one of whom has sought information about the accuser's past for use in attacking her credibility.

"That's the very first I've heard of that," said Bill Cotter, the attorney for indicted lacrosse player Collin Finnerty, who along with fellow Duke sophomore Reade Seligmann is charged with first-degree rape, kidnapping and sexual assault. He declined additional comment.

Attorneys for Seligmann asked the court this week to order the state to turn over the accuser's medical, legal and education records, and hold a pretrial hearing to "determine if the complaining witness is even credible enough to provide reliable testimony."

The accuser, a 27-year-old student at North Carolina Central University in Durham, told police she was hired to perform as a stripper at a March 13 party, where she was raped by three men.

According to the Creedmoor police report in August 1996, when the woman was 18, she told officers she was raped and beaten by three men "for a continual time" in 1993, when she was 14. She told police she was attacked at an "unspecified location" on a street in Creedmoor, a town 15 miles northeast of Durham.

The report lists the names of the three men, but no other details. Creedmoor police Chief Ted Pollard said Thursday he had no recollection of the report, and his staff has been unable to find any additional information about it.

Durham police Officer Brian Bishop, who interviewed the accuser in 1996 while working on the Creedmoor force, said Thursday he had a vague recollection of the report but couldn't remember any details.

When asked about the accuser's previous report of rape, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong declined to comment.

Before Seligmann and Finnerty were indicted, attorneys for the players pointed to the accuser's criminal history when answering questions about their clients' legal troubles. The woman pleaded guilty to several misdemeanors in 2002.

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The judge needs to issue a gag order immediately. I don't see how this can damage her credibility, though. Clearly, Nifong has a case if he can get two out of three guys. The difference is that he's keeping quiet.

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I can't wait to see the evidence because what we know doesn't add up. The timelines are off, Reade Seligmann couldn't have raped her at the time she says, and Colin Finnerty supposedly left the party before she even arrived. Their lawyers are going to rip Nifong on this one whether he has a case or not.

But it seems like to get a grand jury indictment is SO easy. There's no defense, just the DA giving some evidence. Even if it turned out these guys are completely innocent and this woman is lying, their names are now mud. I'm sure they will learn a valuable lesson about all this (hopefully) about their behavior, but I hate the whole racial angle of the story. If they truly raped her, let them fry regardless of their color.

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Apparently, there are some discrepancies within the defense's timeline. Also, Finnerty couldn't have left the party since Dancer 2 saw him at the party. Considering that there are 46 of them, and some actually do look alike, it's very easy to have guys take their stuff or even lie about their names.

It's also come out from the father that they sodomized her with a broomstick, which accounts for a lack of DNA.

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